Do You Want Multiple Actions Per Turn or Not?

[Chris_Nightwing]

1) You said readied action, not reaction, those are different.

2) If the skill-use/maneuver/casting time is just a generally listed as on reaction, that doesn't imply combat. Only when you start narrowing the trigger to things, like "you're attack", instead of "something happens" do you start running into the rules oddities you mention.

Yes, you're right, sorry.

Say the Wizard readies to teleport away if he is charged. As a DM you have to make some sort of decision as to whether the attacker is aware of this. If you opt to trigger it, because goblins are stupid and it makes narrative sense, that's fine. If you don't, because the goblin chief knows enough about magic, the Wizard wastes their turn - there has to be some conversation beforehand about whether or not the tactic will work in advance of it actually being employed.

Then in the reverse, if you have a monster that can do this, you need to decide if the PCs know about its trick. If you tell them, then there's no point in having the trick in the first place is there? If you don't, you've played your own 'gotcha' on the players and whilst that's fun as the DM sometimes, it degrades the trust between you and the players. I try to keep 'gotcha' moments very broad, plot-based things, and they almost never involve screwing over plans carefully laid out and carried through by PCs (so if they hand over the BBEG to the town guard then they might escape for later.. but if they go out of their way to ensure there's no chance of that happening it's no fair to ruin their plans).

 

[Oni]

Say the Wizard readies to teleport away if he is charged. As a DM you have to make some sort of decision as to whether the attacker is aware of this.

Well, it is a role-playing game, it's not unreasonable to ask the DM to role-play. And in the absence of an obvious answer there's always percentage dice that can make the determination

If you opt to trigger it, because goblins are stupid and it makes narrative sense, that's fine. If you don't, because the goblin chief knows enough about magic, the Wizard wastes their turn - there has to be some conversation beforehand about whether or not the tactic will work in advance of it actually being employed.

Sometimes things don't work. Such is life. If it's obvious it won't work then the player probably deserves a warning, but otherwise thems the breaks, live and learn.

Then in the reverse, if you have a monster that can do this, you need to decide if the PCs know about its trick. If you tell them, then there's no point in having the trick in the first place is there? If you don't, you've played your own 'gotcha' on the players and whilst that's fun as the DM sometimes, it degrades the trust between you and the players. I try to keep 'gotcha' moments very broad, plot-based things, and they almost never involve screwing over plans carefully laid out and carried through by PCs (so if they hand over the BBEG to the town guard then they might escape for later.. but if they go out of their way to ensure there's no chance of that happening it's no fair to ruin their plans).

If there are any obvious clues about what's coming the players deserve to know, and they should probably have a chance to pick up on less obvious clues in most cases. Surprises and the unexpected are part of the game, especially little things like monster abilities and tactics.

 

[Steely_Dan]

Or 2 claws, 2 bites and 1 tail slap for a 20th level dragon per turn.

And a couple wing buffets; I was thinking about how a 5th Ed "Solo" monster could work: a dragon could claw you, move, claw someone else, move, tail slap another dude, move, bite somebody, move, and tail slap yet another person, all in one turn.

 

[jadrax]

One of the 4th edition mechanics I really liked was that some creatures could basically use their Tail attack as a reaction when people tried to flank them. If we get simple facing rules I would really like to see something like that for all Dragons (and similar beings).

 

[Aberzanzorax]

My preference is 1 and 1/2 per turn as follows:

I'd like to see one action allowed per character on their turn.
I'd also like to see one action allowed per character not on their turn.


Ideally, the second would be to keep players paying attention and invested in the game because they'd be able to act even outside of their "spotlight" moment in the round.



Oh, and a potential houserule for monsters: different initiatives for each of their attacks. (e.g. Hydra has 9 initiatives, not on burst of death in 9 attacks all at once).

 

[Lalato]

I'm OK with Move and Action being the default.

Didn't read the whole thread, but a thought just popped into my head. Let me know if this is too much for D&D. Maybe add a Triggered Action or Reaction. Something along the lines of declaring a trigger that will result in some action outside of a turn. I would limit the triggers to movement only. The trigger would reset at the start of the creatures next turn.

So the fighter on his turn moves and attacks the goblin chief. Then at the end of his turn declares that if another goblin moves up to him, he'll swat at it. He only gets the one triggered action. If no other goblin moves in, thems the breaks. If the goblin chief moves away, still no trigger.

The wizard takes his turn and casts a spell. He then declares that if an enemy moves within threatening reach to him, he'll teleport away. If no enemy moves nearby, no teleport. If an enemy does move in, the wizard teleports away, and unless he has multiple uses of teleport he won't be able to do that trick again.

This could really get out of hand, so it would need to be toned down further. For example, one could make it so that only Martial Classes can React with an Attack. Others can React with non-damaging options (movement, non-damaging spells, non-damaging special abilities or something improvised that might give the enemy creature Disadvantage).

Probably not right for D&D... and definitely not something I would want to see as the default, but it could be an interesting thing to play around with.

 

[Aenghus]

I think Move and One Action is a good default, as it's the most accessible to new players and allows a more dynamic game than early editions of D&D.

There's definitely room for a more detailed action economy in a module.

One thing that hasn't been said loudly enough in this thread is the danger of the interaction of multiple actions in a turn and spellcasting. Spells tend to be very powerful, and the faster they can be launched the more unbalanced things get.

The single most broken spell in 3.0 was Haste because it allowed casters to cast two spells a turn, massively increasing the effectiveness of their novas. It was so broken that every spellcaster NPC tended to have it, in a magic item if necessary, and every PC spellcaster who cared about effectiveness tried to get it. (and if every caster needs it, its broken)

Even when multiple actions are allowed a turn, there should be a hard limit of one spell per turn on casters, with exceptions for interrupt spells like feather fall. Ideally these should be written into the spells, but the modular nature of the next game will make smooth integration of mechanics in different modules difficult.

 

[Lanefan]

That hasn't been the case in D&D for 12 years...

Yes: a serious mistake made 12 years ago that needs to be fixed.

and even before that it wasn't the case except during very slim windows.

In 1e if someone was in melee with you you couldn't cast, period; and if someone at range happened to hit you with something during your casting time you automatically lost the spell as well.

It's also a concept that is remarkably uncommon nowadays, so I don't see such a sharp swing back happening.

Yet people complain to the ends of the internet that casters have become too dominating. I refuse to believe I'm the only person who can see the blindingly-obvious connection.

DC 15 is a minimum 50% chance failure for a wizard (and likely 55-65)... and that's that. No bonus for leveling.

Somehow I don't see the no-level-bonus surviving until final release...

Lanefan

 

[ren1999]

I'm thinking like this.

The dragon chooses to tail whip one of you for daring to attack her. That is an out of turn reaction that costs her 1 standard action. She's 15th level so she gets 3 remaining actions during her turn. She bites another character within her neck range. She rebuffs that same character to the wall with her wing. Finally she decides to heal some of her own hit points.

 

[Steely_Dan]

Yes: a serious mistake made 12 years ago that needs to be fixed. In 1e if someone was in melee with you you couldn't cast, period; and if someone at range happened to hit you with something during your casting time you automatically lost the spell as well.

Yet people complain to the ends of the internet that casters have become too dominating. I refuse to believe I'm the only person who can see the blindingly-obvious connection.

Somehow I don't see the no-level-bonus surviving until final release...

Total, I think some post, but don't play.