D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[mamba]

Oh, fair enough. I've been pretty clear here that I'm not on board with the DM arbitrarily road blocking abilities for the sole purpose of satisfying their own sense of what is "plausible". I simply don't care what you find plausible. That's a you problem. The only reason it becomes a me problem is because you're forcing your preferences upon me through the authority of sitting in the big daddy chair.

I know, you were clear about that

The feature gives a poor man's version of a limited use spell. Whoopee! Wow, that's totally going to destroy your campaign. Totally unbelievable.

it can be believable and destroy the campaign, it can be unbelievable and not destroy the campaign, the two are not related

 

[Hussar]

I know, you were clear about that


it can be believable and destroy the campaign, it can be unbelievable and not destroy the campaign, the two are not related

I would hazard that if the effect of a minor 3rd level spell spoils your campaign, perhaps the issue isn't with the mechanics.

 

[Faolyn]

The issue I have, well one of them anyway, is that absolutely nothing is required other than the player declaring what they want. You can add all the fluff you want but if you strictly follow the rule it just happens.

Roleplaying is not required of probably 99% of D&D. In fact, the backgrounds are really the only part of the game that encourages roleplaying, via those ideals, bonds, traits, flaws.

You can literally play D&D with not a single second of roleplaying. All you need are dice rolls. "I attack. 18 to hit. 5 slashing damage." "I roll 16 on Persuasion to get past the guard." "15 on Search. Any traps?"

If I wanted that, I'd go download Nethack again.

No muss, no fuss, just flip the switch with no chance of failure.

You can say this same thing about pretty much all non-combat spells. No fuss, no muss, someone gets buffed or you get some information or you cast an illusion.

For that matter, there's nothing in most illusion spells that requires roleplaying, but you probably wouldn't let the PC get away with "I cast silent image to distract the ogres" without finding out at least what the illusion looks like to see if it would, in fact, distract them, right? Or would you just say "the spell's description doesn't require you to say what illusion looks like, so whatever, cast your spell"?

There's zero requirement for any social exchange. In a port and need to get to another port? All that's required is that the player says "I'm a sailor so I get free passage on a ship to where we need to go." Badda boom badda bing it just happens according to the rules. Everything else is unnecessary fluff.

I'm booking passage on a ship. Why does this need to be a "social exchange"? I book, I pay my gold, and we move on to the next scene. Done. I don't want to talk to random NPC #162 that is going to feature this one time and never again. What's wrong with just getting on with it?

Sure, you can do so that. Just like you can say "I cast an illusion spell" and that's it, because nothing else is required by the spell's rules.

Is that really the type of game you want to run, though?

If all you're doing is buying a ticket, you don't really need to RP it. But if you're negotiating passage because you have a nautical background and you want to trade on that, or because you're trying to offer your services in exchange for passage, or any other reason that involves talking--well, give me one reason why it wouldn't be a social exchange? Other than "I don't like to play that way," because that is you, not the game as a whole. It may not even be the other players at your table.

 

[Oofta]

Roleplaying is not required of probably 99% of D&D. In fact, the backgrounds are really the only part of the game that encourages roleplaying, via those ideals, bonds, traits, flaws.

You can literally play D&D with not a single second of roleplaying. All you need are dice rolls. "I attack. 18 to hit. 5 slashing damage." "I roll 16 on Persuasion to get past the guard." "15 on Search. Any traps?"

If I wanted that, I'd go download Nethack again.


You can say this same thing about pretty much all non-combat spells. No fuss, no muss, someone gets buffed or you get some information or you cast an illusion.

For that matter, there's nothing in most illusion spells that requires roleplaying, but you probably wouldn't let the PC get away with "I cast silent image to distract the ogres" without finding out at least what the illusion looks like to see if it would, in fact, distract them, right? Or would you just say "the spell's description doesn't require you to say what illusion looks like, so whatever, cast your spell"?



Sure, you can do so that. Just like you can say "I cast an illusion spell" and that's it, because nothing else is required by the spell's rules.

Is that really the type of game you want to run, though?

If all you're doing is buying a ticket, you don't really need to RP it. But if you're negotiating passage because you have a nautical background and you want to trade on that, or because you're trying to offer your services in exchange for passage, or any other reason that involves talking--well, give me one reason why it wouldn't be a social exchange? Other than "I don't like to play that way," because that is you, not the game as a whole. It may not even be the other players at your table.

I don't care about what kind of game anyone else runs. Whether they spend half an hour adding fluff to something they know will be automatic or hold up 3x5 cards to indicate what they want. It doesn't matter to me. As far as preferences for my own game, I've made that clear. You don't have to agree.

 

[Hussar]

If all you're doing is buying a ticket, you don't really need to RP it. But if you're negotiating passage because you have a nautical background and you want to trade on that, or because you're trying to offer your services in exchange for passage, or any other reason that involves talking--well, give me one reason why it wouldn't be a social exchange? Other than "I don't like to play that way," because that is you, not the game as a whole. It may not even be the other players at your table.

Why am I "negotiating"? I want to go to X. I have Y gold. Done. Services? Who cares? Why am I wasting a bunch of time on trivialities?

Guess what? I don't want to talk to that shop keeper either. I don't want to talk to that random innkeeper either. Just let me mark off the gold, get a room and we're done. Trivial NPC's that have nothing to do with anything are trivial and a complete waste of the table's time. Get on with it.

It utterly baffles me why DM's insist on faffing about on a bunch of completely forgettable, utterly trivial scenes. We are at point A. We need to get to point B because that's where our adventure is. Why would I bother wasting the table's time on talking to random stranger who has nothing to do with the story?

 

[Faolyn]

Note, I've never called you a rules lawyer. I have no idea why you are accusing me of doing so. I don't believe we have directly interacted in ages, @Faolyn. But, I certainly never accused anyone of being a rules lawyer.

I was talking to Oofta at that point.

How is generally a DM's tool for trying to inject "difficulty" into the scene. I have no idea how to climb a wall. Yet, the DM will inevitably ask me "How do you climb that wall". I dunno. I haven't the foggiest. Nor do I care. Note, I'm also pretty sure that the DM doesn't know either, and is only asking in order to block the action.

How do I get passage on a ship? I honestly don't know. I've never booked passage on a sailing ship in a medieval setting. Is there a travel agent? Expedia website? Let me ask you then. Who should you talk to when booking passage on a ship? The captain? The quartermaster? The owner of the ship, since that's very likely not the captain? Can I just talk to any sailor? I don't know. And netiehr do you.

You could always make something up. Or if you feel like it, do research.

But, because I don't know, then my character can't do it, according to you.

I said imagine, not know. I can imagine something like this:

PC: "Hey DM, I go find someone who looks like they're in a position of authority to ask them about booking passage on the ship."

DM: "Yeah, you see someone who looks like he's likely a captain."

PC: "Great. I go up to them, introduce myself, and ask him about passage, and tell him about all the ships I've been on. I'll be an asset on the ship, and my companions can help fight off pirates and sea monsters."

DM: "Roll Persuasion."

This doesn't seem particularly difficult to me either. To me, this seems like a perfectly normal exchange in a game, so I don't know why you think the DM would be injecting any difficulty in this scene.

 

[Faolyn]

it can be believable and destroy the campaign, it can be unbelievable and not destroy the campaign, the two are not related

Do you have any actual, real-game evidence that a feature you don't like will destroy an entire campaign?

 

[Faolyn]

I don't care about what kind of game anyone else runs. Whether they spend half an hour adding fluff to something they know will be automatic or hold up 3x5 cards to indicate what they want. It doesn't matter to me. As far as preferences for my own game, I've made that clear. You don't have to agree.

I notice you didn't actually answer my questions here.

 

[Oofta]

I was talking to Oofta at that point.


You could always make something up. Or if you feel like it, do research.


I said imagine, not know. I can imagine something like this:

PC: "Hey DM, I go find someone who looks like they're in a position of authority to ask them about booking passage on the ship."

DM: "Yeah, you see someone who looks like he's likely a captain."

PC: "Great. I go up to them, introduce myself, and ask him about passage, and tell him about all the ships I've been on. I'll be an asset on the ship, and my companions can help fight off pirates and sea monsters."

DM: "Roll Persuasion."

This doesn't seem particularly difficult to me either. To me, this seems like a perfectly normal exchange in a game, so I don't know why you think the DM would be injecting any difficulty in this scene.

That's not how the feature works. There's no checking for someone in charge, no persuasion check required. The feature states that you already know someone (apparently anywhere in the multverse) and are calling in a favor.

 

[Faolyn]

It utterly baffles me why DM's insist on faffing about on a bunch of completely forgettable, utterly trivial scenes. We are at point A. We need to get to point B because that's where our adventure is. Why would I bother wasting the table's time on talking to random stranger who has nothing to do with the story?

Because they're fun. Because they involve opportunities for roleplaying and interaction. Because they provide color to the game. Because they connect the players to the world. Because they can provide motivation or plot hooks.