Do nonmagical 1/day abilities damage suspension of disbelief?

[Delta]

Now it's a poll. Do nonmagical once-per-day abilities damage suspension of disbelief?

 

[Felix]

I have never been in more pain, put as much physical exertion in, and be entirely as wiped out as when I pulled 2000m race pieces on a rowing ergometer in college. You are expected to use every last ounce of energy in the race so that you collapse, having reached muscle failure, immediately after you cross the finish line. And we had to put forth that kind of effort in multiple races in the same day. So yeah, from a physical capability standpoint non-magical once-a-day exploits give suspension of disbelief a swirlie.

It's a balance issue, I get that. It keeps all the classes exactly the same vis a vis their available abilities. But if I can pull consecutive max-pressure 2000m races, I have a hard time rationalizing why a fighter can't "shatter armor and bone with a ringing blow" more than once a day.

And I don't like rationalizing for the game: that's something it should do for me, or make it easy for me to do.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm with Felix (not on the bike, though!)- I do have a problem with it.

 

[Agamon]

It only wrecks suspension of belief because people view the action as turn based. Everyone is standing around while one guy goes, "Okay, my turn! Hiya!" Yeah, if you look at it that way, why can't anyone do whatever they want?

But if you see the combat as fluid, always moving, everyone always waiting for the an opening, maneuvering to get in the right spot, maybe those high intensity, high risk maneuvers aren't so easy to pull off all the time.

I like to equate it to team sports. In football, basketball, hockey, certain big-time maneuvers work really well. So why don't players do them all the time?

 

[Felix]

I like to equate it to team sports. In football, basketball, hockey, certain big-time maneuvers work really well. So why don't players do them all the time?

They try to do them all the time. But they aren't restricted by metagame rules that say they don't even have them as an option to attempt.

 

[Imaro]

It only wrecks suspension of belief because people view the action as turn based. Everyone is standing around while one guy goes, "Okay, my turn! Hiya!" Yeah, if you look at it that way, why can't anyone do whatever they want?

But if you see the combat as fluid, always moving, everyone always waiting for the an opening, maneuvering to get in the right spot, maybe those high intensity, high risk maneuvers aren't so easy to pull off all the time.

I like to equate it to team sports. In football, basketball, hockey, certain big-time maneuvers work really well. So why don't players do them all the time?

And yet all of the maneuvers don't work like this. Explain why a Rogue can't unleash Blinding Barrage on a continuous basis? There is no good reason, especially if his opponents happen to be unaware of him.

 

[Agamon]

They try to do them all the time. But they aren't restricted by metagame rules that say they don't even have them as an option to attempt.

And who's to say the characters don't try to do them all the time? They only get them off once in a while. The rest of the time you're pulling off what you're able.

 

[Agamon]

And yet all of the maneuvers don't work like this. Explain why a Rogue can't unleash Blinding Barrage on a continuous basis? There is no good reason, especially if his opponents happen to be unaware of him.

I'd like to know how he does it once. Hit multiple opponents in the forehead so that they bleed just enough to be momentarily blinded? Like I posted above, maybe he tries to do that with his ranged attacks, but only manages to pull it off every so often.

 

[Imaro]

And who's to say the characters don't try to do them all the time? They only get them off once in a while. The rest of the time you're pulling off what you're able.

Because, in fact you choose what power you are trying to use. I mean are you saying that when trained warriors fight they throw all kinds of wild attacks until one succeeds? And this reasoning still doesn't explain why a Rogue who sneaks into a room full of enemies clustered around a table, hides in the shadows and takes perfect aim, cannot succeed at Blinding Barrage.

EDIT: Blinding Barrage has a very specific number of weapons you must use to accomplish it... if my rogue is continuously trying this maneuver he would run out of amo. It's these little details that seem ill-thought out that help destroys suspension of disbelief and cause problems with the rationalizing going around. The fact that every one of these powers is different only adds to that.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And who's to say the characters don't try to do them all the time?

Hmmm...the rules?

In previous editions, if you tried to do a maneuver all of the time, it went like:

Rd1
Me: I try to trip my foe.
DM: You fail.
Rd2
Me: I try to trip my foe.
DM: You fail.
RdX+100
Me: I try to trip my foe.
DM: You succeed.

I can try all day, even if I only succeed once.

In 4Ed, once daily maneuvers can only be tried once per day, successful or not. The choice is taken from you.

These are not equivalent designs.