DM's: How do you deal with powergamers?

[frankthedm]

Oh, you're referring to the Researching Original Spells info. I didn't think of that. How could I implement those rules for a person that simply prays for new spells? I can already hear the arguement, "All I should have to do is just ask my god for the power to do so-n-so...why would there be costs & research involved when praying to my god?"

Because the spells provieded by your diety are listed in the PHB. The Rest do not exist in a setting untill the DM aproves them.

 

[Ravensblood]

Even easier, use the spells come from the players handbook only. Plenty of spells in there with no need for all the complete books or spell compendium. Another idea is to put him in a situation where everyone is on a level playing field. For example we had an encounter in a crypt which was surrounded by an antimagic zone. And it was defended by Gargoyles which have DR. Made for a much more difficult encounter than usual while still a fairly low CR.

 

[Ourph]

"All I should have to do is just ask my god for the power to do so-n-so...why would there be costs & research involved when praying to my god?"

The simple answer to that is "because it's a rule that helps balance the game". There is no "logical" or "realistic" reason for hit points or saving throw bonuses going up as you level (what, you got more resistant to poison by killing some orcs and taking their stuff, how does THAT happen?), but the rules allow characters those advantages to make the game work. I'm sure if you started taking away HP and saving throw bonus increases because of "realism" arguments, the player wouldn't be very happy, so he shouldn't pitch a fit when you don't go for that argument either.

 

[werk]

I've never really had a problem with it.

The only thing that you've specifically mentioned is spell choice and starting gear. I do limit front loading of starting gear, but it sounds like this player would probably be fine by my rules. I allow all WotC spells.

You also mentioned his buffing, and that's just bad timing and lack of countermeasures on your part.

After reading and rereading this thread, I guess I don't even think this guy is a powergamer... Maybe you could offer up some of his more effective combos and powergaming tricks so I can better understand the problem. As it is, all I hear that he is a cleric and casts spells and that makes him a powergamer?

 

[Pbartender]

"All I should have to do is just ask my god for the power to do so-n-so...why would there be costs & research involved when praying to my god?"

"Because your deity is not necessarily convinced that you are pious enough to weild such powers. He demands tribute, prayer and sacrifice before he gives you the insight of such miracles... And it costs a considerable amount of time and money to prepare the tributes, prayers and sacrifices that are worthy of what you ask of your god."

 

[Oryan77]

I don't think I saw this mentioned. What level are the PCs now?

Everyone will be level 8 at the next session. I didn't mention the specifics because I'm not really looking for advice on how to handle each of his individual powergaming tactics. There's just too many aspects to dissect & I can deal with them on a case by case basis. I was just asking about how to deal with a powergamer in general so I don't have to keep dealing with every tactic so much.

I think the Research rules may need to be implemented. Allowing access to so many spells wasn't an issue before because no one really took advantage of them that much. Now I'm seeing how allowing all of that info can impact a game when a player picks the book apart. He pretty much can get to the point where the party will be able to thwart any situation with ease when they can prepare (and a sorcerer with Rope Trick allows them to prepare a lot)...I want to avoid that. Swift spells are already becoming a hassle to me when the PC's are now combining them with other spells to instantly avoid some tactic that I spring upon them.

 

[Oryan77]

"Because your deity is not necessarily convinced that you are pious enough to weild such powers. He demands tribute, prayer and sacrifice before he gives you the insight of such miracles... And it costs a considerable amount of time and money to prepare the tributes, prayers and sacrifices that are worthy of what you ask of your god."

Pretty good reasoning. I'll keep this in mind if I require them to research spells from the Spell Compendium.

Maybe you could offer up some of his more effective combos and powergaming tricks so I can better understand the problem. As it is, all I hear that he is a cleric and casts spells and that makes him a powergamer?

Well, I don't want to get into a debate over what someone thinks powergaming is. My interpretation of a powergamer is someone that will spend time outside of the game flipping through books reading everything he can in order to combine feats/spells/ect to form the most powerful attack/defence/ect he can in an attempt to make his PC as invincible as possible. I encourage making a strong build to survive, but it's scary when a guy will spend hours between sessions tweaking everything possible so "nothing can kill his PC".

Buffing a PC to a point where you say, "I raised his attack with this spell, and he's protected from this effect, ect ect" is one thing. But I consider a person a powergamer when he's saying, "I buff my attack bonus with this cause it gives a +1 luck bonus, and I stacked it with this +2 enchantment bonus, & I stack it again with this +1 morale bonus, and then cast this spell to raise my BAB, & this to raise my Str bonus, & then cast this spell to give more attacks, then this swift spell to melee attack from a distance, & since I have this feat it will work perfectly with this spell to give me more attacks".

Basically, to me a powergamer is a person that will spend time to figure out how he can make his current level perform better than something 5 levels higher or so, by just picking the right spells/feats/ect. If you really need it, I can write up his latest spell combo to give an example of what I dealt with in the "final boss" encounter at the end of our last adventure...but again, I'm not really looking to debate the definition of powergaming or whether powergaming is good or bad. I'm just looking for advice on dealing with a player that enjoys picking apart the books to dominate the game rather than roleplaying a character.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I think you should talk to him. Nifty spell use and coming up with clever feat/skill use is one thing and can be fun, but dictating to other players what their characters should be doing or how they level up will soon ruin their fun and spoil the game for others.

Secondly there should be no surprise ablities and you should not have to research anything. if he wants to use a feat from a non core book it should be run by you before hand with him showing you the relevent rules and material. If you allow it hten fair enough and if not then it is not allowed.

 

[shilsen]

Basically, to me a powergamer is a person that will spend time to figure out how he can make his current level perform better than something 5 levels higher or so, by just picking the right spells/feats/ect. If you really need it, I can write up his latest spell combo to give an example of what I dealt with in the "final boss" encounter at the end of our last adventure...but again, I'm not really looking to debate the definition of powergaming or whether powergaming is good or bad. I'm just looking for advice on dealing with a player that enjoys picking apart the books to dominate the game rather than roleplaying a character.

Of course, it's perfectly easy to dominate the game and roleplay a character. In fact, depending on your character concept, trying to come up with the most mechanically effective combos would be playing the character perfectly.

That being said, since you don't want mechanical advice, then the solution is simple - talk to the player. Explain that he's functioning on a different level to the other players and you'd appreciate it if he'd try to tone his PC down and come closer to their level.

 

[00Machado]

Make him be the GM and let him have a field day making villains and uber encounters?