Distant Advantage

[wedgeski]

A quick search didn't yield anything obvious for this... so how does everyone rule this feat? Can a distant attacker actually be one of the two or more allies that are causing the target to be flanked, or must he be firing onto a target that is already considered flanked by two or more *other* allies?

I'm tempted to rule generously on this, since the Rogue is built on the assumption that he has Combat Advantage most of the time (if I remember some early podcasts with Mearls).

 

[1of3]

I'm not sure if I understand the question correctly.

Generally, a character is never his own ally.


A character flanks, if he is adjactent to a target and an ally is in an opposite square. The bonus applies to all types of attacks. Including ranged attacks.

So if the character is in a flanking position, he can shoot the flanked target with combat advantage. That doesn't require a feat, but usually provokes an OA.


The feat allows to gain combat advantage, if two of your allies flank a target.

 

[wedgeski]

Hi thanks for your answer, let me clarify.

Under nornal flanking rules you have to be adjacent to the enemy. Distant Advantage says:

You gain combat advantage for ranged or area attacks against any enemy flanked by your allies.

So under this scenario:

A - - - - - - xB

where:

A is an archer
- is a square
x is an enemy
B is an ally of A

does the feat give A Combat Advantage over x?

 

[Benlo]

I'm inclined to say no, but I would probably allow it, as I am generous to an absurd degree at times. RAW, though, I don't think it'd work because your allies are not flanking it in the scenario you're describing. Two guys flanking it, you can jump in and have some fun, too, but just one of them does not a flank make.

 

[Davachido]

Hi thanks for your answer, let me clarify.

Under nornal flanking rules you have to be adjacent to the enemy. Distant Advantage says:



So under this scenario:

A - - - - - - xB

where:

A is an archer
- is a square
x is an enemy
B is an ally of A

does the feat give A Combat Advantage over x?

Nope, not as far as I can see.
As 1of3 said the archer doesn't count as his own ally and even then you need to be adjacent to an enemy to count as flanking.

The feat basically allows the archer to gain CA through the frontline PCs flanking opponents whereas normally the archer wouldn't benefit from this.

 

[wedgeski]

Thanks all, as I thought so far. The intent of the feat is to allow a ranged attacker to take advantage of a flank set up by his allies, not create a flank himself at range.

Despite that, I'll probably allow it in its more generous form, and see how it plays out.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Hi thanks for your answer, let me clarify.

Under nornal flanking rules you have to be adjacent to the enemy. Distant Advantage says:



So under this scenario:

A - - - - - - xB

where:

A is an archer
- is a square
x is an enemy
B is an ally of A

does the feat give A Combat Advantage over x?

No, that doesn't work.

The feat does not change how flanking works.

It adds a different way for you to gain combat advantage. Flanking happens to grant combat advantage, too. But it's not the only way.

The feat gives you a way to gain combat advantage. The "trigger" for this happens to occur when someone else is flanking a target. But that doesn't make you "flanking" or changing how flanking works for them or against the target.

If, theoretically, the target would not grant combat advantage against flanking attackers, it would still grant combat advantage to you. (If it would never grant combat advantage, you still wouldn't get it, obviously.)
If the target cannot be flanked, you can never benefit from Distant Avantage from it, since none of your allies can flank it.

The only part that might be unclear is whether you gain the benefits of the feat if you flank the target together with one ally and no other allies flank it. Of course, this is usually irrelevant since flanking already grants you combat advantage, but as mentioned before - theoretically the target might have an ability to negate combat advantage from flanking, in which case the feat might still give you benefits. In that rare case, one would need to rule if it's sufficient if one ally is flanking (with you), or if two allies need to be flanking (but they can be flanking with you, not each other, for large targets), or if two allies together must be flanking regardless of your presence.
Obviously, a rare case and I'd think a DM should be able to find a quick ruling.

 

[MrMyth]

A quick search didn't yield anything obvious for this... so how does everyone rule this feat? Can a distant attacker actually be one of the two or more allies that are causing the target to be flanked, or must he be firing onto a target that is already considered flanked by two or more *other* allies?

I'm tempted to rule generously on this, since the Rogue is built on the assumption that he has Combat Advantage most of the time (if I remember some early podcasts with Mearls).

As others have said, the power definitely does not allow the character to flank from range - just gain combat advantage when his friends in melee are already flanking a foe. I'd highly recommend against the 'generous' ruling - it is already a very effective feat, and turning it into "You always have combat advantage if an ally is adjacent to an enemy" is quite a bit much. And I say this as someone who regularly plays a ranged rogue.

The assumption is that Combat Advantage is easy to acquire - and it is, even for a ranged character. You have various methods of hiding and sniping (especially with MP2), along with many powers that will set up future rounds of combat advantage, and feats that give conditional ways to acquire it (such as Distant Advantage). And, worse case, you can actually come into melee and flank, even if it provokes (not the end of the world, though, if there is a Defender around.)

Allowing one feat to mitigate the need for any of that would, in my opinion, be a mistake.

 

[Stuntman]

Thanks all, as I thought so far. The intent of the feat is to allow a ranged attacker to take advantage of a flank set up by his allies, not create a flank himself at range.

Despite that, I'll probably allow it in its more generous form, and see how it plays out.

What do you mean by more generous form? As I understand it, there is only one form in which this feat works.

 

[Droogie128]

Didn't read the whole post, so I may be repeating, but DA gives you CA with ranged attacks when your allies are flanking. You aren't your own ally, so no