Did anyone figure out how to get rid of Bbn, Rgr, Pal?

[reapersaurus]

Over the years, I remember a few attempts at removing the Barbarian, Ranger, and Paladin classes, and keeping just a straight Fighter class, that could be customized to cover the other 3 classes, if the player chose to go that way.

Did any of them work?
Does anyone have some samples they could give me?

In my opinion, one of the main sticking points is that darned "1 feat per 2 fighter levels" dogma.
It would be easier to balance if every character got 1 feat every 2 levels instead of 3.

I'm asking about this, also since I realized that it would be easier to make my Heroic Feats work in this kind of a class system, than trying to tack them onto the existing structure (something people don't accept).

 

[Wombat]

It's easy enough to make the Paladin into a PrC, and much more appropriate. Then again, in my campaigns we have dropped alignment, so there are no Paladins per se.

With a little work, I suppose, you could do the same for Ranger and Barbarian, but I'm not sure it is worth the effort.

 

[AeroDm]

I guess I am not sure why exactly you want to do this... perhaps you could explain further so I could be more help.

However- the Midnight Campaign Setting offers Heroic Paths that basically give sets of abilities to classes. I know that you can recreate the paladin with a fighter and a certain heroic path, so you could try something similar for D&D. Perhaps drop every other feat for the fighter (so 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20) and then give them one of three paths at 2, 6, 10, 14, 18. Give one ability at each point. Probably drop the spells from ranger/paladin and give them abilities instead.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Over the years, I remember a few attempts at removing the Barbarian, Ranger, and Paladin classes

Might I suggest a really big sword, a really little sword, and finally a medium-sized sword? If all else fails, try poison.

 

[reapersaurus]

the idea has been brought up at least 3 major times, in different amounts, on these boards - I was just wondering if anyone that reads this had followed those threads, and has them, or remembers whether they worked at all.

If anyone followed them, they'd remember just from the title of this thread, I'd imagine.

Basically, the impetus came from people who didn't like the fringe aspects of rangers, paladins, etc and thought D&D would work better with just 4 basic classes: Rogue, Fighter, Cleric, Wizard

So they would make a system for the Fighter class that allowed all melee-types to take levels in it, then get customizable abilities that substituted for the built-in features that the fighting classes get currently.

 

[Ferret]

Hit them with a stick.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

PRCs

Proably the simplest way to this would be through the use of PRCs.
You could do the same for bards, monks and druids.
And to a lesser extent with sorcerors (though this could be more difficult.)

 

[reapersaurus]

ummm... no, PrC's are not going to work.
That's not what I'm talking about, but thanks.

This 'system' as was proposed many times was a substitute for the current 3E, non-customizable class system.

PrC's don't fix the problem of classes not being customizable.

The fighter is customizable with the feats, but feats are very limiting - they don't allow him to become a Bbn, or a Paladin, or a Ranger (or do the things they are able to do).

The problem, as I remember it, was that whatever system was proposed, it had to pretty equally rank feats and class abilities.
The problem is, many class abilities just are not equal.
Is Favored Enemy equal to SLow Fall is equal to Lay on Hands is equal to Bbn Rage?

I think the only way it could truly work is to grant the fighter class a certain number of "class points" that could be spent on various things (let's say 8 points per level), and then have all those abilities analyzed and come up with a number for each ability. Simplistically, a feat would cost 16 points (therefore 1 feat every two levels). The most difficult abilities would be those that advance with each level. Maybe assign a point cost when first taken, and then a much lower point cost to up them each subsequent level (maybe 1 point cost).

So it's sounding somewhat similar to Four Color to Fantasy, with their Hero Point system, which also has the problem that the cost estimation fore the abilities is really the crux, and achille's heel, of the system.

 

[Tonguez]

I made an ruling that all first level class abilities are Feats - so it is possible to have fighters with sneak attack +1d6 and Fast Movement, or Barbarians with Divine Grace.

To go and turn all class abilities into feats requires the creation of feat chains

so for instance
Feat 1: Basic Rage (Prereq Con 13)
Feat 2: Rage per day (Prereq Basic Rage)
Feat 3: Greater Rage (Prereq Basic Rage, BAb+11)

To really go whole hog create a classless system...