Defeating my powergamer Glave master

[AbdulAlhazred]

I don't really think it is meta-gaming when monsters use good tactics. Some monsters by their nature don't usually do so, unintelligent ones, etc, but the majority of monsters will.

Consider, these monsters have been surviving in their environment their whole lives. They've probably run into every crazy kind of thing that would like to eat them, enslave them, or whatever. They've probably also faced heroes before, and if certain tactics are so vastly better than others, then one can presume that a lot of heroes are using those tactics, and thus the monsters have long since learned what the score is.

"Hey, Grogthuk, isn't that guy using the old pole arm momentum gambit?"

"You know, Frugthunk, I think you're right. Remember that pit fighter we took out last month? The one we dropped boulders on from the top of the cliff?"

"Good thinking there, Fruggy, lets go! And while we're at it, what do you think, will we need to go pay off that Fen Hydra to come give us a hand?"

Obviously it gets cheesy when you simply build a slew of encounters to beat one character, but monsters DO learn, and they may well talk to each other too sometimes. Intelligent BBEGs will likely also do things like assign their flunkies to report back on whatever the latest threat is in the area so they can adjust their forces, modify terrain, or hire some extra specialist help. So I don't see anything inherently meta-gamey about it.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Oh, yeah, and add this one to your bestiary as well. Kuo-toa Marauder. Kind of seems purpose built to deal with these weapon trick kind of OA fighters.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

How about a powerful elite or solo striker that the fighter can't reach, and a horde of minions and lesser evils swarming the party? Glaive man can do his thing and keep the lamers at bay while the rest of the party attacks the otherwise-inaccessible artillery platform from afar.

 

[SlyFlourish]

If I recall correctly you have 6 characters playing in your group. WOTC adventures are usually designed for 5 characters. Are you upping the monsters to compensate? If not I would try adding or reinforcing the Controller, or Artillery monsters to bring the monsters to par for a party of 6. Good luck.

Yeah, I started off by adding an additional creature to make up for it but that doesn't always do the trick so now I might turn two of them into elites or add a couple of more monsters.

The only problem with this is that it generally slows the game way down and we can only get in two battles a night.

I'm going to try some of my new "berserker" type monsters - 1/2 hps, 2x damage, +2 attack stacked on normal guys to charge things up a bit.

 

[Mistwell]

My mistake, I thought an OA was a reaction not an interrupt. In any case, Polearm Gamble says, "When a nonadjacent enemy enters a square a adjacent to you, you can make an OA..." The enemy is already in the square adjacent when the OA happens.

It's in the official FAQ under polearm gamble. It stops movement prior to their entering the square. It's the attempt to enter the square that triggers, and the attempt is interrupted.

 

[breschau]

The solutions are all IMO pretty heavy on the metagaming side. The "answer" now means that the DM is configuring his encounter according to a certain feat that some player has. "Going around" the fighter seems really strange too - now monsters see a man with polearm and suddenly are inspired to attack someone else?

Why would you assume that the monsters are stupid and want to die? They're murderous thugs out for loot. They see some badass standing between them and easy pickings, they're going to avoid him if they can and fire from range. Simple tactics. Not metagaming. Any creature that straps on armor and a weapon is going to think about what they're doing and try real hard to avoid throwing their lives away just because they're npc fighting pcs, now that's metagaming.

 

[Spatula]

It's in the official FAQ under polearm gamble. It stops movement prior to their entering the square. It's the attempt to enter the square that triggers, and the attempt is interrupted.

Meh.

I wonder if the feat is in the paragon tier because they figured there's enough creatures with reach at that point, that it wouldn't really matter.

 

[Goumindong]

Here is another good one.

Readied actions

Readied actions go off on the turn of the trigger. You can only OA once/turn. Enemies that ready actions for some other action on the enemies turn[say, ready a charge], can completely avoid the polearm gambit at the expense of initiative.

Once you've got something adjacent to the fighter the trick doesn't work again.

If the fighter shift backs the enemies an shift next to him and then work into flanking. If the enemies. If you've got something with a mark, immobilize, difficult terrain zone, etc etc etc its even better.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Here is another good one.

Readied actions

Readied actions go off on the turn of the trigger. You can only OA once/turn. Enemies that ready actions for some other action on the enemies turn[say, ready a charge], can completely avoid the polearm gambit at the expense of initiative.

Once you've got something adjacent to the fighter the trick doesn't work again.

If the fighter shift backs the enemies an shift next to him and then work into flanking. If the enemies. If you've got something with a mark, immobilize, difficult terrain zone, etc etc etc its even better.

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. 2 or more monsters ready a charge action against the fighter. The last monster charges, this triggers the charge of all the others, and they all arrive at the fighter at the same time, during the triggering monster's turn. Both OA and CS can only trigger once in a monster's turn.

Picture it, the orcs all line up and one yells, "Charge!" and they all come down on the guy all at once. He'll get one of them, maybe 2. The rest will be right up there swinging. They might not BEAT him, but they'll get their licks in at least.

Monsters developing good tactics for a given threat still doesn't seem meta-gamey to me. Rewriting every encounter completely so it is totally focused on killing one guy, yes, but using different tactics and maybe adding or replacing a couple monsters in later fights doesn't.

Surely each monster in a bunch of evil monsters cares about its OWN skin at the very least. Even if they think the big melee defender should be engaged, not too many of them are going to want to be the one to do it, so most monsters WILL go for squishies if they possibly can.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. 2 or more monsters ready a charge action against the fighter. The last monster charges, this triggers the charge of all the others, and they all arrive at the fighter at the same time, during the triggering monster's turn. Both OA and CS can only trigger once in a monster's turn.

That's not really how readied actions work. They won't all go "at the same time". When you ready an action, it essentially functions as an immediate interrupt on the readying trigger, moving your initiative to right in front of the triggering event.

For example, I ready a charge for when an enemy comes around a corner. When an enemy comes around the corner, I interrupt the action and take my action (the charge) before he resumes the rest of his turn. So the Fighter would still get OA's on each monster, otherwise there's a LOT of broken shenanigans you can perform with readied actions.

Now, as for dealing with this guy, there's several things. Ranged works well, as does attacking his crappy Reflex defense. Any monsters that have the ability to teleport or shift multiple squares work too. If there are any monsters that get a bonus to OA's, that works good too. Also, considering using an NPC Artful Dodger Rogue. He'll have a bit bonus to defense against OA's, meaning the Fighter is likely to miss, and the CA will allow him to really hurt the Fighter with his attacks.

This doesn't mean you do that every combat, just sometimes. The idea that a DM should never create encounters by taking player abilities in mind is silly. Encounters should always have a mix of enemies that, over time, will play to different players' strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes you can throw a nice Soldier that the Glaive Fighter can tear to pieces with OA's, other times it's a Brute that soaks up all of his attacks until a Striker comes into finish him off with some really huge damage, and other times it will be some sort of a Skirmisher that the Wizard can lock down by denying him actions. The beauty too is that each of those monsters that plays to one PC's strengths, is likely to play to another PC's weakenesses. The Soldier is going to be strong against a Striker who can't hit it (or any other role), the Brute can soak up a lot of a Fighter's attack without getting hurt much, and the Skirmishers/Lurkers can really be the bane of a Fighter with all of their mobility.

So, if you just send a procession of melee Soldiers at your Fighter, he's always going to shine. Send in some Reflex targeting enemies and suddenly he's not going to be doing so hot, especially if they have a lot mobility via multi-square shifts or teleports. Rather than looking at this as "ZOMG, you're screwing the Fighter!", look at it as a chance for the Rogue to shine. He has the mobility to keep up with the enemy, and his Reflex will be hard to hit for an enemy that primarily attacks that defense.

So it's not so much about trying to screw the Fighter here, but more about trying to give the other players a chance to shine. The Fighter will feel challenged because he's not effective against this enemy type, but the Rogue will feel empowered. In the next encounter, flip it and allow for the reverse to happen. Keep doing this over time and you'll spread out the healing surge uses between all members of the party, and you'll give them all their moment in the spotlight as well as their moment of fear. Win/win.