Spelljammer Dark Sun confirmed? Or, the mysterious case of the dissappearing Spelljammer article...

[humble minion]

But if they had been radically changed, it also wouldn't have bothered me--just like how VGR doesn't bother me.

Question though - is there some changes they COULD have made, that would have bothered you? As a reductio ad absurdum example, if they'd abolished Darklords, or made Strahd a gnome, or rejigged the whole setting so that the whole thing riffed entirely off Scream movies and similar parodies and horror/comedies?

Cos presumably there was some aspects, or themes, or characters, or something that particularly drew you to the original Ravenloft. Are there any Ravenloft sacred cows that WotC could have slaughtered that would have been a step too far for you and soured you on the new book, or were you able to take VRGtR as an entirely new setting and evaluate it purely on its standalone merits?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Question though - is there some changes they COULD have made, that would have bothered you? As a reductio ad absurdum example, if they'd abolished Darklords, or made Strahd a gnome, or rejigged the whole setting so that the whole thing riffed entirely off Scream movies and similar parodies and horror/comedies?

Cos presumably there was some aspects, or themes, or characters, or something that particularly drew you to the original Ravenloft. Are there any Ravenloft sacred cows that WotC could have slaughtered that would have been a step too far for you and soured you on the new book, or were you able to take VRGtR as an entirely new setting and evaluate it purely on its standalone merits?

What I can say is there are some ideas in the original Ravenloft boxed set which I thought where fundamentally bad ideas, and undermined it's nightmarish concept. Most notably, the Core, and the idea that there was trade and commerce occurring between domains as if it was a real world. VGR took the original concept and fixed the poor implementation of the original boxed set. Also, given the nightmarish nature of the setting, "continuity" is a determent. In a nightmare, things just change, and no one notices.

So, basically, anything that improves on the original idea is welcomed.

 

[Faolyn]

Question though - is there some changes they COULD have made, that would have bothered you? As a reductio ad absurdum example, if they'd abolished Darklords, or made Strahd a gnome, or rejigged the whole setting so that the whole thing riffed entirely off Scream movies and similar parodies and horror/comedies?

Cos presumably there was some aspects, or themes, or characters, or something that particularly drew you to the original Ravenloft. Are there any Ravenloft sacred cows that WotC could have slaughtered that would have been a step too far for you and soured you on the new book, or were you able to take VRGtR as an entirely new setting and evaluate it purely on its standalone merits?

That would have bothered me? No, not really.[1] The writers would have to go for one of your absurd ideas to truly turn me off (not that I ever use the Darklords, really). Or have doubled down on some of the things I really didn't like about the original Ravenloft--like how practically all of the female Darklords had their goals and origins centered entirely around men. But the latter would have me actually being upset at WotC for continuing to use sexist tropes, not at the setting. And I am so glad that changed. Even if they had never genderflipped anyone, the new versions of Ivana Boritsi, Jacqueline Renier, Tsien Chiang, and the hags (well, hag, singular) are so much better. I only wish they had fleshed out Gabrielle Adaire.

What drew me to Ravenloft in the first place was the mood the books produced, and from there, the world in general. Same with Planescape. I read the books and not only immediately got wonderful/horrific images in my mind, even without looking at the artwork, but the way the books were written brought me into the setting. I tend to not get that feeling when reading a lot of the setting books. Even Dark Sun, with its evocative artwork, didn't really make me feel like I was in the world.

But anyway. Even if I turned out to really not like VGR as a whole, I certainly would have been able to find aspects I liked and wanted to yoink for myself, and I certainly wouldn't have thought that WotC didn't care about me as an older gamer.


[1] Well, that's not entirely true. In Curse of Strahd, they have "funny" names and epithets on the crypts, and that bothered me because they were just dumb mood-killing jokes. Humor is needed in horror for several reasons, but while I don't mind if things get a bit silly, I prefer to let the players be the ones to make the jokes. And I'm still iffy on the idea of there being a limited number of souls in the setting, although at the same time I kind of like the idea that the Dark Powers and/or Mists can't make souls which is why they steal people from other planes.

 

[delericho]

[1] Well, that's not entirely true. In Curse of Strahd, they have "funny" names and epithets on the crypts, and that bothered me because they were just dumb mood-killing jokes. Humor is needed in horror for several reasons, but while I don't mind if things get a bit silly, I prefer to let the players be the ones to make the jokes.

I may be misremembering, as it is a long time since I read it, but I think the original I6 version of Ravenloft also had joke names in that crypt.

 

[Maxperson]

You mean the Weave? I'm playing D&D for eleven years now and didn't even know about this "Weave" until a few hours ago. So yes, absolutely.

So any rule you aren't aware of isn't a mechanic. Got it.

It doesn't matter if you were aware of a "weave" because the name is irrelevant. There exists magic and anti-magic dead zones, which I'd bet you were aware of. So even if you didn't have an official name for it, you were aware that there is generally magic all around(a weave) and some things can nullify it(no weave there) and magic won't function.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I may be misremembering, as it is a long time since I read it, but I think the original I6 version of Ravenloft also had joke names in that crypt.

It did. I6 was very jokey. It started life as a movie parody. The sequel played it straight though.

There is usually something that can be improved. That's why "could do better" can go on any school report.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

So any rule you aren't aware of isn't a mechanic.

If you can be unaware of something and it have no effect on your game, it's not a rule. Rules have effects.

 

[Parmandur]

Well, that's not entirely true. In Curse of Strahd, they have "funny" names and epithets on the crypts, and that bothered me because they were just dumb mood-killing jokes. Humor is needed in horror for several reasons, but while I don't mind if things get a bit silly, I prefer to let the players be the ones to make the jokes. And I'm still iffy on the idea of there being a limited number of souls in the setting, although at the same time I kind of like the idea that the Dark Powers and/or Mists can't make souls which is why they steal people from other planes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think those are right out of I6, arenthey?

 

[DEFCON 1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think those are right out of I6, arenthey?

Yep. Tracy Hickman put those in the original I6 because why not... and Hickman and Perkins decided when they sat down to brainstorm Curse of Strahd to leave them in, because again why not? They were there before, so why not put them in again, since they were completely inconsequential little easter eggs that could easily be removed/changed by any DM should they really feel the need.

 

[Maxperson]

If you can be unaware of something and it have no effect on your game, it's not a rule. Rules have effects.

Not what I said. I said...

"So any rule you aren't aware of isn't a mechanic."

He has been arguing that the "weave" rule that says that if there is no "weave"(whatever you want to call it), magic isn't possible and the mightiest archmage couldn't light a candle with magic isn't a mechanic.

You can unaware of a rule and have it have no effect on your game. That doesn't mean that it's not a rule and/or not a mechanic. Rules do have effects, but only when you actually use them.