D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah? I love it, myself.


Precisely why I love it. You can't have both.


Other than this. I mean, if it's a spellcaster casting a spell, then it's a spell. It doesn't matter if it 100% matches a name or crunch entry of a particular spell. It's a spell. If you mean, you need to know what level it is and that sort of thing, yeah, I guess that would be a problem if you needed that information for any reason, but AFAIK, they're taking pains to get rid of that sort of thing (IE making a spell like Counterspell simply force a save on the target, as opposed to a check against the spell level).

I'd rather look it up than have caster NPCs be that different than PC casters.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Other than this. I mean, if it's a spellcaster casting a spell, then it's a spell. It doesn't matter if it 100% matches a name or crunch entry of a particular spell. It's a spell. If you mean, you need to know what level it is and that sort of thing, yeah, I guess that would be a problem if you needed that information for any reason, but AFAIK, they're taking pains to get rid of that sort of thing (IE making a spell like Counterspell simply force a save on the target, as opposed to a check against the spell level).

So why not write that it's a spell? Why leave the DM to guess if it's supposed to be a spell or not, and if so what level?

 

[bedir than]

I hope we get an NPC for each class at each tier of play

 

[TwoSix]

Other than this. I mean, if it's a spellcaster casting a spell, then it's a spell. It doesn't matter if it 100% matches a name or crunch entry of a particular spell. It's a spell. If you mean, you need to know what level it is and that sort of thing, yeah, I guess that would be a problem if you needed that information for any reason, but AFAIK, they're taking pains to get rid of that sort of thing (IE making a spell like Counterspell simply force a save on the target, as opposed to a check against the spell level).

That's my approach. Counterspell counters spells. Not all magic is spells. But if the NPC is a spellcaster in the fiction, then their abilities are going to be vulnerable to counterspell.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I hope we get an NPC for each class at each tier of play

Actually, that would be good. Of course, there are so very many caster classes that you'll run aground of this spell/not spell issue very quickly.

 

[bedir than]

Actually, that would be good. Of course, there are so very many caster classes that you'll run aground of this spell/not spell issue very quickly.

I'll just use the duck rule. If it looks and acts like a spell, it's a spell

 

[Clint_L]

Let it be known that I'm not happy about the approach where caster NPCs have unique spell like abilities that don't actually count as spells, as seen in MoM etc.

I like having all the info I need to run a monster in the stat block so that I don't have to look up spells in the PHB, but if an "arcanist" is waving his hands and creating something that looks like a Fireball, it should be declared as a spell so that it can interact with other game features that relate to spells.

Yes, I 100% agree. Also, with more and more folks playing through DDB, having a spell list is barely an inconvenience - you just hover over the spell and there's the description.

 

[Retreater]

Basic Needs:
A meaningful CR system
No PC-like spellcasting
Minions
Good tactical options
Pre-example encounters

Essentially, if it doesn't have each of these components covered, I won't get it since I already have other sources that cover this ground.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'll just use the duck rule. If it looks and acts like a spell, it's a spell

Be nice if the book said that though, for the many, many people who are unwilling to speculate beyond the official rules. And to protect against rules lawyers.

 

[Retreater]

Yes, I 100% agree. Also, with more and more folks playing through DDB, having a spell list is barely an inconvenience - you just hover over the spell and there's the description.

I will disagree with you there.
Even if you know the spells or pay the premium for the DDB, you're still tracking spell slots, complex effects - all for a monster that's dead in 2-3 rounds. It's pointless, convoluted design - and I hate it.