D&D 5E Critical Hits Appears to be Next in D&D Archive

[Thornir Alekeg]

I haven't been able to make it though all the messages yet so maybe this has been pointed out already...


But it seems like some of the people saying 'this is a good thing because it reduces the number of dice rolled' are the same ones saying 'this is a good thing because it can trigger a feat that lets you roll more dice'.

That seems contradictory.

Also, how much time does it take for someone to pick up a few more dice, roll them and add them up? 10 seconds? 15?

But, give that player more options: "You can trigger your auto knockdown feat or, because you are within 10' of the Warlord you can get +2d6 damage or, you can instacast your 'teleport 30 feet on a crit spell' " What do you want to do???

NOW watch how much time goes by before the next die is rolled.


The biggest things slowing down our game hasn't been the number of dice rolled, its players deciding what they want to do.

rv

I agree with you, but I suppose it is possible that the goal is to try to simplfy and quicken some areas so that the additional rules and complexity in others do not make things even worse.

Right now I'm liking the proposed streamlined system, especially if the only number that matters is a natural 20. In 3.5 another aspect that slowed play was that my players often forgot at first that the scimitar would be a possible crit on an 18 or 19 as well.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I did no such thing. It is a gross misrepresentation to claim I did.

I stated, factually, that my 9 year old daughter has no trouble with the math required. The only comparison there was the implict assumption that pretty mcuh anyone on these boards should have even less trouble with it. Saying that a threshold is set well below what I assume to be the capacity of the readers is, if anything, exactly the opposite of equating the readers with that threshold.

edit: I also don't understand how you leapt to the question of my daughter doing arithmatic for fun. I said it was easy for her. I said nothing that remotely states "arithmatic == fun". The same arithmatic will be required in determining a hit or miss in 4E. Yet I don't expect you will say that 4E will be "arithmatic for fun".

I think the part that makes it last long is this:
Base Damage is 1d8+5. So that makes the critical damage 2d8+10. That's easy, and can be determined pretty quick. But the actual computation often works like this:
1: (roll): 5, 4. That's 9.
2: Okay, Base Damage +10. That's 19.
3: But wait, I power attacked for +5, right? That's +10.
4: Okay, then the total +29.
5: Oh, wait, this round, the Bard started singing. That's another +2. Err, +4.
6: That's a total of 33 points of damage.

The problem is that too many values are not fixed. That means you recalculate them often.
The 4E critical hit would at least remove the first 2 steps of this example, which means cutting 1/3 of the time required. (Now imagine if this was true for all other parts of the game, too! I hope the total time reduction is lower, since we'd run way faster through adventures then before, which means more preperation time for me!)

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I hope the total time reduction is lower, since we'd run way faster through adventures then before, which means more preperation time for me!

It will mean prepping further in the adventure, but if what they claim is true prep time will be reduced as well. Of course if most of your prep time is setting up story paths and options, rather than statting out encounters, then it will take more time.

 

[Shazman]

I haven't been able to make it though all the messages yet so maybe this has been pointed out already...


But it seems like some of the people saying 'this is a good thing because it reduces the number of dice rolled' are the same ones saying 'this is a good thing because it can trigger a feat that lets you roll more dice'.

That seems contradictory.

Also, how much time does it take for someone to pick up a few more dice, roll them and add them up? 10 seconds? 15?

But, give that player more options: "You can trigger your auto knockdown feat or, because you are within 10' of the Warlord you can get +2d6 damage or, you can instacast your 'teleport 30 feet on a crit spell' " What do you want to do???

NOW watch how much time goes by before the next die is rolled.


The biggest things slowing down our game hasn't been the number of dice rolled, its players deciding what they want to do.

rv

I agree. In 4E critical hits will be so lame, they might as well be removed from the game. If a critical hit only adds 4 or 5 points of damage to your hit, it's not that "critical". If you think critical hits take away from so much game time, wait till the fighter has to choose which of his 20 maneuvers to use this round. That will make 3.5 crits seem speedy by comparison.

 

[Simon Marks]

If a critical hit only adds 4 or 5 points of damage to your hit, it's not that "critical".

That's a pretty big 'if' there, sport.

However, I'm in favour of 'Crit = Special effect' (such as trip/disarm/whatever based on weapon) rather than 'Crit = more damage'

 

[rvalle]

I agree with you, but I suppose it is possible that the goal is to try to simplfy and quicken some areas so that the additional rules and complexity in others do not make things even worse.

Right now I'm liking the proposed streamlined system, especially if the only number that matters is a natural 20. In 3.5 another aspect that slowed play was that my players often forgot at first that the scimitar would be a possible crit on an 18 or 19 as well.

And that is not a bad thought. I just can't see saying "Rolling more dice = BAD!" and then turning around and saying "Being able to roll more dice = GREAT!"

On the whole issue, I'm leaning more towards liking the 3.5 version then what I've seen so far on the 4.0 rules. Maybe the parts we've not seen yet will make things better.

rv

 

[BryonD]

I'm gonna drop out.

But I just want to stress that I honestly am not insulting anyone.

If my thoughts were of an insulting nature I'd say that we DO need this system because so many people are just too dumb to handle the great 3X system. That is not remotely my point. My point is that I really deeply believe that 99%+ of the people reading this can easily handle the system if they just want to.

And I honestly think that giving it up has greater costs than may be being discussed. If you want less math then play WoW. WoW does all the math for you. And I'm not saying 4E is becoming WoW. That is a completely different argument that I for one do not at all buy. But D&D has so much more to offer than WoW because it is such a rich system that builds on the bedrock assumption of play in real time with intelligent and imaginative people who are willing to work with the mechanics and squeeze every drop of an alternate reality out of it. Giving up that richness just to make it quicker and easier is giving up a portion of the very things that make it so much better than WoW.

And I really truly believe that even a lot of people who think easier sounds like a great deal now, will, in time, find themselves wondering what just isn't quite the same.

 

[Professor Phobos]

I don't want to work with mechanics. They're a necessary evil. I want to work with story and character- that is where I do my squeezing. Mechanics are there to add some uncertainty. I don't believe they are good for anything more than that.

 

[Spatula]

According to the article, we are talking about adding 1d6 damage for being a crit-heavy weapon. So max damage + 1d6.

No, that example was for a +1 frost weapon (and it's not mentioned if the +1d6 on crit is from the frost property or the +1). The effect of the war pick on crits is not detailed.

 

[frankthedm]

Kind of a shame, in that if you want to get lots of AC currently you have to give up something...usually offense...giving a clear and - dare I say it - balanced choice for the player to make.

Past a certain point the PC is in a situation where he is dragging out fights too long and at the same time not being challenged enough by the fights.

The end effect will be to make the average combat slightly shorter, which might be exactly the intent.

It won't be the "average" fight this makes much shorter. This will make sure the Uber AC PC won't drag out the TPK longer than it has to be.