Cover, Big Creatures and Ranged Attacks

[Psimancer]

When calculating Cover for Big Creatures from Ranged Attacks, do you use their entire area (eg 10x10) or just the one space (5x5) that is being ‘targeted’? If it’s the former, the larger the creature, the easier it is for it to get cover from missile fire… I can find no evidence in the rules to prove it is the other (more logical) way… The section on ‘Big Creatures and Cover’ talks about melee attacks only…

 

[Scharlata]

When calculating Cover for Big Creatures from Ranged Attacks, do you use their entire area (eg 10x10) or just the one space (5x5) that is being ‘targeted’? If it’s the former, the larger the creature, the easier it is for it to get cover from missile fire… I can find no evidence in the rules to prove it is the other (more logical) way… The section on ‘Big Creatures and Cover’ talks about melee attacks only…

Hi!

IIRC the markswoman could choose any of the 5x5 squares to determine if a big critter gets cover against his projectiles. So it is more difficult for a big critter to get cover if it stands behind a small/medium cover.

Kind regards

 

[shilsen]

Hi!

IIRC the markswoman could choose any of the 5x5 squares to determine if a big critter gets cover against his projectiles. So it is more difficult for a big critter to get cover if it stands behind a small/medium cover.

Kind regards

Correct. It's on pg. 150 of the PHB.

 

[Arksorn]

Good Question
It is not clearly defined in the PHB, so it is the judges call.

Here are all the rules on cover I could find
ph = Player's Handbook
mh = Miniatures Handbook

Cover for ranged attack: Choose corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of target’s square passes through square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through square occupied by creature, target has cover. (ph 150)

"target’s square" not clearly defined for the purposes of a ranged attack in the PHB (it is defined for a melee attack). The Miniature's Handbook clarified/changed "target's square" to be entire space for ranged attacks (mh 95). I say clarified/changed because I am not sure this was the original intent.

"border that blocks line of effect" clarified to not count lines that touch a corner or go down an edge as providing or blocking line of effect or cover because they do not pass through the border (mh 95)

Cover for melee attacks: Target does not have cover if all lines from all corners of one of your squares to all corners of one of target’s squares does not go through a wall. (ph 151)

Cover for reach melee attacks: If target not adjacent to you, use rules for ranged attacks. (ph 151) (does this mean you can pick just one corner of one of your squares (rather than all corners of one of your squares as is normal for melee) and also can no longer pick single square of large creature???)


So as you can see, there is some grey area. I would contradict the miniatures handbook and say that ranged attacks allow the attacker to pick one square of target for determining cover.

 

[Scharlata]

[...]mh = Miniatures Handbook [...]

Hi!

I think you mix up the mini rules with the standard PHB rules, sorry!

Kind regards

 

[Arksorn]

Hi!

I think you mix up the mini rules with the standard PHB rules, sorry!

Kind regards

Actually as I noted the mini handbook did not change anything. It clarified some things that were missing. So in view of the PHB not being complete on ranged cover, it is the only other WOTC source I could find. And on further review it looks like it does meet the original intent. The PHB speaks about large creatures and using only one square for cover but specifically limits it to melee attacks, its silence on ranged attacks is deafening. Do you know any other sources we can use that clarify ranged cover? I would like to find one if there was.

 

[Scharlata]

I would like to find one if there was.

Hmm, maybe I didn't get what you implied.
But we are talking of the entry in the PHB page 151 Soft Cover, which changed officially from "melee" to "ranged", and later Big Creatures and Cover, which does not mention anything respectively about ranged cover? You're right. Sorry!

Kind regards

 

[Psimancer]

Arksorn, thanks for the additional reference…

The PHB speaks about large creatures and using only one square for cover but specifically limits it to melee attacks, its silence on ranged attacks is deafening.

Yep, and that’s where my problem is…


Unfortunately, the Miniatures Handbook confirms my worst fears; when calculating cover for big creatures, you do look at their entire base, and not just a 5’x5’ square (see the graphic on pg 95 of the MH, its pretty clear on the subject...).

So as you can see, there is some grey area. I would contradict the miniatures handbook and say that ranged attacks allow the attacker to pick one square of target for determining cover.

Good to see that I was not the only one to view it as grey on first read of the PHB… but yeah, I agree, I think I will change it to a single square... it just seems more... realistic... and balanced...

Thanx for the input…

 

[Psimancer]

Just to give you an idea what I am talking about...

In this scenerio, under the rules, it easier to hit the orc than the ogre...

Everything else being considered equal, the ogre is -1 to AC for size, but +4 due to cover...

Just doesn't make any sense to me!

 

[Amal Shukup]

Big Creatures and Cover: Any creature with a space larger than 5 feet (1 square) determines cover against melee attacks slightly differently than smaller creatures do. Such a creature can choose any square that it occupies to determine if an opponent has cover against its melee attacks. Similarly, when making a melee attack against such a creature, you can pick any of the squares it occupies to determine if it has cover against you.

This seems fairly clear to me... Yes it specifies Melee in the text, but I do not see any reason not to apply the same ruling to ranged attacks.

To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).

A 'square' is specified, not the target's 'base'.

Therefore, If a line can be drawn from the archer's 'corner to a target's square without passing through an obstruction, the target gets no cover bonus (the condition for cover has not been met).

And this would (as in the above ruling about big critters and cover) work both ways...

This makes sense and seems to follow both the RAW and the Intent. N'est pas?

A'Mal