Controlling a Monstrous Scorpion

[Ziggy]

Hi!

I've got this beautiful miniature of a huge monstrous scorpion with an orc rider that I want to use in my campaign. But when I looked for explanations for how the rider managed to control to scorpion within the rules, I was totally stumped.

It's not a beast or animal, so animal empathy/handle animal should not work.

It's immune to mind-affecting spells, so any dominate or enslave type spells would not work.

The rider will be a 8th level goblin druid, so I though of house-ruling that goblins might take vermin as "animal" companions. But with the new rules for companions, he is limited to 8HD creatures (and the scorpion is 16 HD). Thus I don't like this option anymore.

I could also invent a "rod of vermin control", but that is also far into house-rule territory.

Are there any spells, items, skills etc. that can be used to control vermin, or must I resport to some sort of house-rule to build this combo ?

.Ziggy

 

[RogueJK]

Read through the section on page 79 of MotW called "What is a Mount". (This is right after the Windrider PrC description, but it makes no mention of being for Windriders only. I could be wrong, though.) [And I was... see Edit, part 2 below]

It gives rules for training creatures besides animals and beasts to carry riders. Basically, it's a Handle Animal check of DC 25+the creature's HD. In this case, with a 16 HD scorpion, it would be DC 41! Not something that an 8th level druid could do, probably. Not to mention that the mount has to have a CR no higher than your character level -3. So it would require at least a 9th level character to ride a Huge Monstrous Scorpion.

If you could somehow get his Handle Animal bonus high enough to train it, you would just have to find a way to make the scorpion willing to carry a rider. That might require a special magic item, like a Collar of Vermin Control or something like that.

[Edit] In order to carry a rider, a mount only needs to be one size category larger than the rider. Since a Goblin is Small, the mount only needs to be Medium. A medium-sized Monstrous Scorpion has only 2 HD, so the Handle Animal check would only be at DC 27. Much more reasonable than DC 41.

Plus, with a Small rider and a Huge mount, I seriously doubt that the rider would be able to control his mount. It would be like a kitten trying to ride and control you, or a person trying to ride and control a whale. [/Edit]

[Edit, part 2] I just re-read the section on "What's a Mount". A normal druid (or any other character) can only train animals or beasts as mounts. A Windrider, though, can train any creature with an Intelligence of 2 or below, including Vermin. So make your Goblin a Druid7/Windrider1. Max out his Handle Animal skill, and equip him with some magic items to raise his Handle Animal check.

In fact, a Goblin Windrider makes a lot of sense. Goblins tend to ride Worgs, so there are bound to be some Windriders in their ranks. This particular one just happens to prefer Monstrous Scorpions. [/Edit, part 2]

 

[Vadania]

The rider will be a 8th level goblin druid, so I though of house-ruling that goblins might take vermin as "animal" companions. But with the new rules for companions, he is limited to 8HD creatures (and the scorpion is 16 HD). Thus I don't like this option anymore.

.Ziggy

Just wanted to point out that's not a new rule, it's always been in the DMG.

And let me slip you just one tiny snipit of info, and hope I don't get in troulble for it. Epic Level Handbook (the version I saw, could change) Train a Vermin DC 50 + HD of vermin.

 

[RogueJK]

Re: Re: Controlling a Monstrous Scorpion

Epic Level Handbook (the version I saw, could change) Train a Vermin DC 50 + HD of vermin.

There's a way around that... see my post above.

 

[Ziggy]

Thanks for the help, I didn't notice this section in MoW.

It's going to be hard to get the Animal Handling high enough, but what I think I'll do is to say that he has trained it from it was small. Then the DC gets more reasonable, and within the bounds for a 8th level druid. It stretching the rules a bit, as there are no modifiers for this, and normally the end HD is what you should roll against. I could possibly give him an item that gives +20 on Handle Animal, but that's a pretty tough item. In addition you are normally limited to a CR equal to level-3 for your mount, and the scorpion is CR 6.

But I noticed he need to be a windrider to do this, so I'll make him into a druid8/windrider 1 (that will solve the CR problem as well). I don't think training to accept a rider is a big problem, that is just another Handle Animal check against the sme DC.

It is not a possibility to reduce the scorpion in the encounter, the miniature is definitely Huge, thus the 16 HD.

.Ziggy

 

[hong]

Hi!

I've got this beautiful miniature of a huge monstrous scorpion with an orc rider that I want to use in my campaign. But when I looked for explanations for how the rider managed to control to scorpion within the rules, I was totally stumped.

It's not a beast or animal, so animal empathy/handle animal should not work.

Turn it into a half-fiend monstrous scorpion; this changes the creature's type to "outsider" and (presumably) gives it an Int score. Make the rider a blackguard or similar servant of eeeevil, with the centipede for a special mount.

Also, a huge monstrous scorpion would be 16 to 32 feet long, which is twice as long as a horse. Unless you're talking about a helluva big mini, it should probably be size L.

 

[Ziggy]

Re: Re: Controlling a Monstrous Scorpion

Just wanted to point out that's not a new rule, it's always been in the DMG.

Probably, I just didn't notice it before

And let me slip you just one tiny snipit of info, and hope I don't get in troulble for it. Epic Level Handbook (the version I saw, could change) Train a Vermin DC 50 + HD of vermin.

Oops But I think the Winderrider option might be a reasonable way around this, se my other post.

.Ziggy

 

[Ziggy]

Re: Re: Controlling a Monstrous Scorpion

Turn it into a half-fiend monstrous scorpion; this changes the creature's type to "outsider" and (presumably) gives it an Int score. Make the rider a blackguard or similar servant of eeeevil, with the centipede for a special mount.

This is an idea, but then I'll have to change the druid quite a bit, I'm not really sure if it still within the parameters of what I want. But it's an excellent idea for doing it within the rules

Also, a huge monstrous scorpion would be 16 to 32 feet long, which is twice as long as a horse. Unless you're talking about a helluva big mini, it should probably be size L.

It's really large, on my battlemap is is 10'x20' (nearly 15'x20'), that is excatly the face of a huge scorpion, while the large is just 5'x10'.

.Ziggy