Combat Sleight of Hand

[backbeat]

This came up last night and it may effect a character concept I'm thinking of so I wanted to post it here.

In the Slieght of hand skill description it says it's a dc 20 to lift an item off a person. There is an opposed spot check to see if the target notices, but as long as you make your check you have the item.

So can just start grabbing all the gear off my opponent? The rule makes sense for potions or scrolls, but when your lifting a unused weapon or a equipped broach is there an AoO or something? If there is an AoO, what is the mechanic for it?

 

[Raspen]

Disarm has rules for takeing items in combat.

other then that thier is a PRC that has rules for a rogue doing it i just dont rember the name.

 

[moritheil]

I asked a very similar question a month ago and got very little specific rules information aside from the stipulation that secured items had to be disarmed. It seems that all unsecured items are fair game. Good luck!

 

[backbeat]

I looked over some of Disarm and grapple rules. It looks like there are 3 ways to get an item off someone.
1) "Lifting" it via a slieght of hand check. This seems to be more for steeling non-equiped items, like purses and potions, but no rules seem to state that.
2) "Disarming" it via a unarmed disarm check. This works on losely secured objects that can be cut or ripped away easily.
3) For secured objects, the wearer must be pinned before you can try the disarm check.

I would still like to find some explanation of what can and can't be "lifted". I know it can be done in combat because it's listed as a standard action.

 

[Dheran]

Yes, you can use a standard action skill like Sleight of Hand in combat. The things to be aware of are:

• It provokes an Attack of Opportunity.
• If the AoO hits, the skill attempt fails unless you make a Concentration check: DC = 10 + damage dealt.
• The DC to lift a sheathed weapon is 50 (see the Epic Sleight of Hand rules).
• Regardless of whether you succeed or fail you've given up your standard action for the round, so you get no attack (unless you have at least 20 ranks in Sleight of Hand and can attempt the skill as a free action).
• Even though you're not attacking, with a standard action skill use you can't use total defense.
• If you're not attacking you can't combine this with Spring Attack.

Using Sleight of Hand in combat is perfectly legal -- just very, very risky. I'd only attempt it on low BAB targets such as Wizards.

 

[Erywin]

Yes, you can use a standard action skill like Sleight of Hand in combat. The things to be aware of are:

• It provokes an Attack of Opportunity.
• If the AoO hits, the skill attempt fails unless you make a Concentration check: DC = 10 + damage dealt.
• The DC to lift a sheathed weapon is 50 (see the Epic Sleight of Hand rules).
• Regardless of whether you succeed or fail you've given up your standard action for the round, so you get no attack (unless you have at least 20 ranks in Sleight of Hand and can attempt the skill as a free action).
• Even though you're not attacking, with a standard action skill use you can't use total defense.
• If you're not attacking you can't combine this with Spring Attack.

Using Sleight of Hand in combat is perfectly legal -- just very, very risky. I'd only attempt it on low BAB targets such as Wizards.

Thats pretty much how I would rule it, can I ask where you got all the info on it? A few of us spent most of a day reading thru the SRD and PHB to find the rules...

Cheers,
E

edit: I would also only allow the AoO if the defender made thier spot check.

 

[blargney the second]

Here's how I would most likely interpret an attempt to Sleight of Hand an equipped brooch once combat was in full swing:
1) Sleighter rolls his SoH check, victim opposes with Spot.
2) If Spot > SoH, then victim gets an AoO, and the attempt fails.
3) If SoH > Spot, then Sleighter can take the item if the check was > 20.

-blarg

 

[Alpha Polaris]

Yes, you can use a standard action skill like Sleight of Hand in combat. The things to be aware of are:

• It provokes an Attack of Opportunity.

Not necessarily: you could use Concentration to "Sleight of Hand defensively", avoiding the AoO altogether. If you fail the concentration check, your action fails. If you make it, you can attempt to lift whatever goodie you're after.

You can use Concentration to cast a spell, use a spell-like ability, or use a skill defensively, so as to avoid attacks of opportunity altogether. This doesn’t apply to other actions that might provoke attacks of opportunity.

I completely second the rest of your analysis.

 

[Erywin]

Here's how I would most likely interpret an attempt to Sleight of Hand an equipped brooch once combat was in full swing:
1) Sleighter rolls his SoH check, victim opposes with Spot.
2) If Spot > SoH, then victim gets an AoO, and the attempt fails.
3) If SoH > Spot, then Sleighter can take the item if the check was > 20.

-blarg

I would actually add a few things, one is the choice of using SoH "defensively" with concentration and the second is that the SoH only fails if the AoO is successful.

 

[blargney the second]

Doh! Yeah, that's what I meant, Erywin.