Level Up (A5E) Bard's art specialty and Tearful Sonnet

[noodohs]

This is really two questions, but it originally came up because our healer cleric is about to get access to Tearful Sonnet, which he is pretty grumpy about (but that's a different matter). In that spell, it says: "You cannot cast another spell through your spellcasting focus while concentrating on this spell." However, I can't find anything in the rules that says when you use a focus, you cast the spell through it. Heck, in A5e, I can't even find anything saying you need to handle it to cast a spell (unlike o5e which specifically states you need to be holding it), but I could just be missing something. Is there anything anywhere stating that you cast spells through a focus? What does this sentence refer to/mean?

To try to answer that, I looked at the Bard class's Art Specialty, but that leaves me with another question about this part: "Although spells can be cast without these instruments, only targets that are able to perceive your performance can benefit from this feature." I assume "this feature" means Art Specialty, but in what way do others "benefit" from it? For example, Percussion doubles your range, so if I'm not casting with drums, I already can't target creatures outside of my normal range, so whoever I am targeting is already not "benefiting" from the feature. I don't really understand what this is actually trying to say. Can someone help me out?

 

[Tablite]

However, I can't find anything in the rules that says when you use a focus, you cast the spell through it. Heck, in A5e, I can't even find anything saying you need to handle it to cast a spell

I think the answer you're looking for is in the Equipment section for Spellcasting Foci (327). It says "Using a spellcasting focus allows a spellcaster to forgo many material components for their spells" and to see Chapter 10. The Components section of Ch 10 (494-5) says that non-consumed, no-cost Material components can be substituted by a focus, and that the spellcaster hold the focus during the spellcasting (and can be the same hand making the Seen component as well).

So if your cleric casts Tearful Sonnet using their holy symbol see 153), they cannot cast another spell while concentrating on it, unless one of the following is true for the second spell:

• The spell uses a different spellcasting focus (such as an arcane orb from a sorcerer multclass) they can manipulate
• The spell does not have a material component (eg Arcane Muscles, Guidance)
• The feature that grants the spell says it doesn't need them (ie Tiefling's Infernal Legacy, pg 46)

My main question in return is, why is your cleric getting this, and why is the player upset? It's not on the Cleric spell list or an archetype spell list. And Clerics are prepared casters, so they're not forced to choose it (unless it's a archetype spell, in which case it doesn't count against the number prepared anyway).

"Although spells can be cast without these instruments, only targets that are able to perceive your performance can benefit from this feature."

2 Things:

1. Spells can be cast without the instrument means the bard doesn't have to use the instrument as their spellcasting focus. They can cast using traditional materials (say, if their instrument is stolen) and not be locked out of all their spellcasting. Pg 125 says bards can use and arcane focus or this feature to cast bard spells.
2. I believe this is to limit the effect if the target is incapacitated or unconscious (and possibly blind/deaf)

 

[noodohs]

I think the answer you're looking for is in the Equipment section for Spellcasting Foci (327). It says "Using a spellcasting focus allows a spellcaster to forgo many material components for their spells" and to see Chapter 10. The Components section of Ch 10 (494-5) says that non-consumed, no-cost Material components can be substituted by a focus, and that the spellcaster hold the focus during the spellcasting (and can be the same hand making the Seen component as well).

So if your cleric casts Tearful Sonnet using their holy symbol see 153), they cannot cast another spell while concentrating on it, unless one of the following is true for the second spell:

• The spell uses a different spellcasting focus (such as an arcane orb from a sorcerer multclass) they can manipulate
• The spell does not have a material component (eg Arcane Muscles, Guidance)
• The feature that grants the spell says it doesn't need them (ie Tiefling's Infernal Legacy, pg 46)

My main question in return is, why is your cleric getting this, and why is the player upset? It's not on the Cleric spell list or an archetype spell list. And Clerics are prepared casters, so they're not forced to choose it (unless it's a archetype spell, in which case it doesn't count against the number prepared anyway).


2 Things:

1. Spells can be cast without the instrument means the bard doesn't have to use the instrument as their spellcasting focus. They can cast using traditional materials (say, if their instrument is stolen) and not be locked out of all their spellcasting. Pg 125 says bards can use and arcane focus or this feature to cast bard spells.
2. I believe this is to limit the effect if the target is incapacitated or unconscious (and possibly blind/deaf)

Quoting on mobile is hard, sorry for the large block. The cleric is getting it as part of the healer archetype. But that still doesn't really answer the question. That spell specifies casting something THROUGH the focus. I understand that one must hold a focus for it to count as being used, but that spell is the only reference to casting THROUGH it, as if the spell eminates from the focus. It does not say you can't use the focus for another spell, just that a spell can't be cast through it. I ask because I thought, whether in A5e or o5e or PF2e, there was an idea that you did literally cast through a focus, but I can't find references to that anymore and am now thinking I made it up... But since this is the only place that wording appears, it's... Odd.

 

[Tablite]

that spell is the only reference to casting THROUGH it,

Look at the bard spells as a whole. Many (several?) of them also say this (eg Battlecry Ballad, Dramatic Sting, Harmonic Resonance). Why Bards specifically have this limitation, I dunno

 

[noodohs]

Ah, I had thought it might be a bard thing, but it only shows up in spells and not in the class itself... And then is extra confusing when those spells are given to other classes. Okay.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

i believe what "You cannot cast another spell through your spellcasting focus while concentrating on this spell" is supposed to mean is that you can't use the focus while concentrating on the spell, which basically just means that you need to manually provide material components for any spell with a material component you want to cast while concentrating (as opposed to using the focus to ignore it).

as for why bards get that limitation so often, i'm pretty sure it's to emulate playing the instrument (i.e. the focus) to keep the spell going.

 

[noodohs]

Okay, I think I'm starting to get the intent, it's just weirdly/poorly worded. The idea is you have to use your instrument, which is your focus, to use your art specialty feature. You could use a component pouch to cast other spells while concentrating on Tearful Sonnet, but those spells then can't benefit from art specialty. Which is kind of a meaningless qualifier when you are a cleric, but makes sense as a bard. Still struggling with the art specialty wording, but that bit makes sense now.

 

[Selganor]

Maybe the "divine" variation could be that some celestial choir continues to sing as long as the cleric is concentrating on his holy symbol.

Once he uses another spell with this holy symbol the energy that powers the choir gets rerouted to the other spell.

Although... the normal material component (which could also be called a "focus" for this spell) is a "whole onion"... It is somewhat funny if the healing cleric would just present the onion (and the magic of the spells increases the tear inducing smell way further than usual)