Attacks of Opportunity and inititive order

[Charlemagne]

I have a question about what happens to a character's inititive order after taking an attack of opportunity. The PHB says that an AoO is a single attack made at your normal attack bonus, even if you have already attacked in the round. However I am confused by the next sentence which says that a high level fighter who gets multiple attacks per round (using the full attack action) would get these additional attacks, but at the lower bonus.

Q1: When does a character with multiple attacks per round take these additional attacks (meaning, does their inititive order move up to the spot in which they gain the AoO and they take all attacks at that time or do they take the AoO at the point in which it arises and then get the subsequent attacks with lower attack bonus at their normal inititive order).
Q2: If the high level character has already attacked in the round using the full attack action, is an AoO which occurs later in the same round made at the highest bonus?
Q3: What about characters who do not have multiple attacks per round; Specifically, does the AoO substitute for their attack for that round if it arises prior to their inititive order, or does their inititive order change to the point in which the AoO occurs, or do they simply get two attacks per round if the AoO happens to occur after their inititive).

I cannot seem to find an answer to these questions anywhere in the rules, FAQs or on the message boards. Maybe I am being too technical about combat. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Orco42]

AoO's are strange when you are first starting.

Basically you can use the AoO whenever in the round. It could be before or after your initiative.

AoO's don't change you Initiative at all. And they are at your highest attack bonus.

 

[Astlin]

A1: You make all of your regular attacks on your initiative. You make an AoO when it happens. AoO's do not effect your initiative in any way.

A2: Yes.

A3: The AoO does not effect your regular attack(s), is not substituted for your regular attack(s) and does not effect your initiative.

Lets say I get 3 attacks per round at +15, +10 and +5 (to hit). My initiative is a 8, the Wizard I am with has a 12 and an attacking Orc has 16.

Second round of combat comes around (no one is flat footed) and at initiative 16 the Orc tries to move past me and attack the Wizard.
I now get a free attack at my full +15 bonus against the Orc.
The (foolish) Orc stops just behind me and attacks the mage.
At initiative 12 the Wizard casts a spell.
The Orc gets an AoO against the Wizard. The Wiz dies and his spell does not go off. (He should have stepped back 5' before casting)
At initiative 12 I get all 3 of my attacks at my normal to hit bonus (+15, +10 and +5).

Hope that helps.


Astlin

 

[dr_nukem]

It is important to note that Feats like Power Attack and Expertise affect *EVERY* attack that you make for an entire round.

In the example above, let's say that the fighter made a +5 power attack in the first round. Now round 2 comes around. The orc moves, causes the AoO, and the fighter gets to make 1 attack at his highest attack roll. However, since he used power attack on his last attack roll, this attack is modified by -5.

The same applies to Expertise. If you take 5 points off you BAB to add to your AC, that modifier is for an entire round. Any AoO that occur between the action you declared you were using Expertise and your first action next round have a -5 modifier. Of course, with Expertise, you also have the +5 to your AC for the same amount of time.

 

[Charlemagne]

Thank you for your replies. I would tend to agree with all of them, except that I still cannot reconcile the language on pg. 122 of the PHB: "An experienced character gets additional regular melee attacks (by using the full attack action), but at a lower attack bonus. You make your attack of opportunity, however, at your normal attack bonus - even if you've already attacked this round."
With the previous example, this would seem to indicate that the fighter who has the low inititive and takes the AoO against the orc would then only get two attacks at his regular inititive order at +10 and +5 respectively. If that is not correct what does the language above mean? Why even say anything about "using the full attack action" or "lower attack bonus" if an AoO is simply an extra attack which has no effect on your normal attacks? But if the rule is interpreted that way then it would lead to the following strange outcome:
F1 has attack bonuses of +6, and +1 with inititive of 12.
C1 has an attack bonus of +5 with intitive order of 16.
W1 has an inititive order of 5.
Orc has an intitive order of 14.

Second round, no one flat-footed.
C1, F1, and orc all engaged, W1 is behind C1 and F1.
C1 attacks orc at +5 and misses.
Orc moves past both F1 and C1 provoking attack of opportunity from both. C1 gets another attack at +5. F1 gets an AoO at +6. Orc still alive and kills W1 as previous example. Now F1 gets regular turn but only gets 1 additional attack at the lower attack bonus of +1. Problem, the lower level C1 got two attacks in the round at +5 each, whereas the higher level F1 got two attacks at +6 and +1. Maybe the fact that C1 rolled a higher inititive gives him an advantage over the higher level fighter. This seems to be what the above quoted language means. Can anyone explain this? Thank you.

 

[hong]

Thank you for your replies. I would tend to agree with all of them, except that I still cannot reconcile the language on pg. 122 of the PHB: "An experienced character gets additional regular melee attacks (by using the full attack action), but at a lower attack bonus. You make your attack of opportunity, however, at your normal attack bonus - even if you've already attacked this round."
With the previous example, this would seem to indicate that the fighter who has the low inititive and takes the AoO against the orc would then only get two attacks at his regular inititive order at +10 and +5 respectively.

No, you still get 3 attacks at +15/+10/+5 with a full attack action.

If that is not correct what does the language above
mean?

It means that any AoOs you make are at +15.

Why even say anything about "using the full attack action" or "lower attack bonus" if an AoO is simply an extra attack which has no effect on your normal attacks?

Because if you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can get multiple AoOs in one round, and they are all at +15.

 

[mikebr99]

Once the Orc moves, both the Cleric and the Fighter get an AoO. This happens as soon as the Orc leaves their threatened square.

Now after that happens, and the Orc has moved and took his one swing and killed the Wizard, the Fighter's turn comes up, since he doesn't have to move any more then 5ft. to get at the Orc, he chooses to make a full attack action, and takes 2 swings at the orc, one at full BAB, one at BAB-5.

 

[Wikkin23]

An Attack of Opportunity is a FREE attack. It's a bonus. You get it because your opponent did something that exposed his defenses momentarily, and your character takes advantage by delivering a quick blow.

This FREE attack in no way changes your initiative, and it does not count against any number of attacks you have in a given round.

If you do not have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can only make one Attack of Opportunity per round. For instance, the orc runs past the fighter to get to the mage. The fighter takes an Attack of Opportunity against the orc. The orc attacks the mage. Now, if a second orc were to run past the fighter, the fighter would not be able to take an Attack of Opportunity against it.

The Combat Reflexes feat allows you to take additional Attacks of Opportunity every round equal to your positive Dexterity modifier. However, you can still only make ONE Attack of Opportunity per opponent in a given round. All Attacks of Opportunity are done at your highest Base Attack Bonus. For instance, if the fighter above had Combat Reflexes, and a Dex of 13, he could make an Attack of Opportunity against the second orc. Both Attacks of Opportunity would be at his best Base Attack Bonus.

Wikkin