Any Christian rpgs?

[Gradine]

The current rights holder had been selling NOS (new old stock) copies of the original game

I've been re-watching the Fast & Furious franchise lately, being as I am on a bit of a D&D movie kick, so I'll say that I appreciate the parenthetical here. I swear I did a double-take at first

 

[MoonSong]

There are plenty of Christian game masters and as authors like Tolkien, Wolfe, Lewis, and Macdonald show, you can tell a Christian story in a fantasy or sci-fi setting, but...

There probably isn't a Christian rpg. Most rpg's that deal with Christian iconography like in nominae or dogs in the vineyard are pretty clearly anti-christian in nature and are spiritually not that removed from dabbling in the occult. And that's to not even get into the larger body of works that are occult inspired.

The spiritual danger here is that a game is trivial and the spiritual safety of a game depends on that triviality. There are dangers involved in presenting God in fiction, and it is important to look to Christian authors like the aforementioned writers to look and see how they navigate that heady subject. You can see in Tolkien's forward to the lord of the rings for example his concerns about readers taking his works too seriously.

My advise to people engaging with this topic is always the same. If you tell a story in humility and prayer purely with the intention of telling a good story or hosting a good game, you'll end up with a Christian story or game. But of you go in explicitly trying to be Christian about it, you're very likely to end up with a blunt didactic sappy mess that not only fails to inspire, but is often thematically contrary to your intentions.

Mostly yes. I am Catholic -and not even a lapsed one- and I stay away from so-called Christian entertainment. Double so for RPGs which aren't a controlled experience and anything could happen. As you mention, with these themes you risk either being too preachy, or trivializing the subject matter. Sometimes both. So I prefer to stick to more 'secular' fantasy. Heck, DnD already borrows too much from Christiam trappings as it is. there is no need to increase the thematic elements.

 

[Parmandur]

Well, if you can understand Swedish, then you have the following:

• Quo Vadis?
• Ansgar
• Vägen

All three were published by a diocese here in Sweden, and they use(d) them in their confirmation-educations. Haven't ever seen them so no idea about wether or not they were good (mechanics-wise). But given that they were all written in the early 90s if I recall correctly, they probably feel quite dated. I have the 4rth game (Tellus) that they did, and that was a stand-alone SF-game with no links to religion as such if I recall. Let's just say that mechanics-wise it is a child of it's time...

edit: I have no idea wether or not they are still in print. They were made by "Västerås stift"
According to Swedish Wikipedia, they also did a game called Sägen , and one called "Reformator"

Here's a link: sadly only in Swedish, but you can run it through google translate if needed. Rollspel utgivna av Västerås stift – Wikipedia

That's interesting. I've thought more than once that a Powered by the Apocalypse or lakes in the Dark style game focusing on the Age of Martyrs would be a fun exercise in catechsis.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

DnD already borrows too much from Christiam trappings as it is

Yeah, vanilla D&D, both TSR and WotC versions, is extremely close to Catholic worldview and cosmology already. A setting book closing the gap would be extremely small.

 

[Parmandur]

Mostly yes. I am Catholic -and not even a lapsed one- and I stay away from so-called Christian entertainment. Double so for RPGs which aren't a controlled experience and anything could happen. As you mention, with these themes you risk either being too preachy, or trivializing the subject matter. Sometimes both. So I prefer to stick to more 'secular' fantasy. Heck, DnD already borrows too much from Christiam trappings as it is. there is no need to increase the thematic elements.

Yeah, Christians can make great art, but resorting to "Christian art" is usually the sign of third rate schlock.

 

[aramis erak]

Ars Magica is kind of anti-Christian, though. Not in the sense of being satanic, but in the sense of being written from the perspective of the Order of Hermes to which the Church is fairly hostile, and because magi have trouble dealing with the Divine. Areas heavy in divine power give penalties to using worldly magic, and someone with True Faith can use it to resist and dispel worldly magic.

So it's not so much that the magi are opposed to the Church, as it is the Church being opposed to them, and having the best tools with which to deal with them should they be pushed in that direction.

I'd say Ars Magica is just about antithetical to being a "Christian" RPG.
The intended play mode is entirely about playing spellcasters, and the Christian regio is directly antithetical to wizardly or faerie magics.
The magic system isn't diabolical in focus. Going to liturgy hurts the abilities of casters (because it confers a minor blessing, both mechanically, and as a matter of the historical order of liturgy - the final act of the celebrant is the "Blessing of the Faithful." Then the deacon dismisses all, and the clergy lead the exit.).

I would not say that makes it anti-christian. I would only really classify something as anti-christian if it specifically demonized Christianity.

Ars Magica is set in a very christian setting with a divinely powered christian church.

And while the default PCs are mages in a world where the church is a competing power, there are things like the sourcebook Realms of Power: Divine to provide a framework for having magi who are christians with true faith.

The inclusion of True Faith is primarily to up power adversaries. Everything the wizards do is, at least through 4th ed, opposed by the church as presented in the game, and opposed by the historic 12 and 13th century Church. If one is looking for Christian morality as the basis of play, Ars Magic as a mechanical setup makes for a poor choice, as the mechanics are optimized for behaviors that are opposed by the historic church and the in-rulebook church-as-described.
Not to mention that, despite appearing to be aimed at villains, the 3rd ed supplement The Maleificum is very much a player supplement as well.

 

[aramis erak]

That's interesting. I've thought more than once that a Powered by the Apocalypse or lakes in the Dark style game focusing on the Age of Martyrs would be a fun exercise in catechsis.

The problem being that catechesis requires prior existing knowledge being imparted.

One of the ways that Dragon Raid limits the errors in catechesis possible is the requirement for scripture quotes to cast - they're not random; each specific effect requires a specific quote. Full verse, for many. From player memory.

Even given that, there are many in fundamentalist communities hostile to DR, simply because it's not a given that the GM will be writing suitably allegorically and theologically sound adventures.

Of the ones mentioned in thread, I have run only a few. DR was a one-shot, and all my players were avid gamers, with only myself and one other being Christian. In order to be playable, we had to ignore the player-component of the magic system...
Ars Magica, while set in the height of Catholic power in Western Europe, is very much "The Church is no friend to your PCs"
Pendragon, the religious virtues are pretty good, but are reflective of the Medieval church more than the modern Christian theological groups.

In Nomine isn't anti-Christian, or significantly anti- any other religion. It has the premise that no religion is entirely correct, or entirely incorrect. This may bother literalist Christians, but more liberal types have no problem with it.

It's firmly grounded in Catholic and Jewish cosmology. Very firmly so.

 

[Staffan]

The inclusion of True Faith is primarily to up power adversaries. Everything the wizards do is, at least through 4th ed, opposed by the church as presented in the game, and opposed by the historic 12 and 13th century Church.

I haven't played all that much Ars Magica, but the impression I have gotten is not that the Church is a direct antagonist as much as it is a "don't poke the bear" threat. While magi are individually very powerful, they have social restrictions imposed by the Order of Hermes, and those restrictions are very much aimed at (a) not getting too heavily involved in mundane politics and (b) don't upset the Church.

 

[Parmandur]

The problem being that catechesis requires prior existing knowledge being imparted.

Hence the attraction of the playbook approach, providing a framework to direct player action. Basically could allow a sort of "MadLi " hagiography generation system.

Pendragon, the religious virtues are pretty good, but are reflective of the Medieval church more than the modern Christian theological groups.

Most modern Christians share the same theology and ethical framework of the "Medieval Church," to be fair, so Pendragon would definitely work for modern Catholic morality play.

 

[aramis erak]

Hence the attraction of the playbook approach, providing a framework to direct player action. Basically could allow a sort of "MadLi " hagiography generation system.

Doubtful. More likely to produce error than anything resembling either modern or

Most modern Christians share the same theology and ethical framework of the "Medieval Church," to be fair,

No, they do not. Making such a claim shows a lack of knowledge of the history of the Reformation and the Catholic Counterreformation.

I can disprove that claim with one historical element...
The medieval church believed and taught that one could pay one's way out of purgatory by the buying of indulgences with cash. (The modern Catholic church still has indulgences, but you can't buy them - you get them by pilgrimage and penitential service. Noting that the other 20 churches in the Roman Communion don't use the term, but do have the concept.)

No modern Christian church I'm aware of allows paying for indulgences, and almost all protestant denomications reject the purgatory concept, so indulgences are a non-sequiteur for the mainstream protestants.

There are a dozen other issues on which the modern Catholic church differs strongly from it's medieval version... Translation of the bible, translation of the liturgy, whether minor clerics are indeed clerics or are laymen, whether torture is allowed in defense of the faith... Whether laymen can lead services of any kind... who gets to make changes to the liturgical texts and rubrics. Whether Serfdom, peonage, and slavery are allowed.

See the conciliar and postconciliar documents from the councils of Trent, Vatican I, Vatican II, and the unions of Uzhorod & of Brest-Litovsk....