Alternative Duskblades

[Ilium]

So I like the duskblade class. But it occurred to me that you could get more mileage out of it by tweaking one or two things to make some alternatives. So I'm considering allowing the following three variations in my game:

1) As written. This version is much like the warmage in flavor, but with a more martial focus. These duskblades are students of a magic fighting style perfected in the academies of my world's big decadent empire, Ilium.

2) As written, but the casting stat is Charisma instead of Intelligence. This represents someone with the same gift as a sorcerer, but with a martial focus.

3) The most radical change: Keep all the rules, but the casting stat is Wisdom, and the spell list is the cleric's spell list. This represents an especially martial priest or holy warrior, filling much the same role as a paladin. A religious order of knights might have clerics, fighters, paladins and these guys all in it, and nobody would really distinguish between them much. This is the variant that I'm most worried about balance-wise. The cleric spell list is obviously MUCH bigger than the duskblade list, but the character still has to pick spells known, so I don't think it's a problem. Plus, as divine casters, I would probably subject them to loss of powers if they violated their ethos too much, just like a cleric.

So, what do you think? Worth doing? Unbalanced? Pointless?

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

All of them sound great, and I really do like variant #3.

Yes, the cleric list is somewhat larger than the duskblade list. You could fix this by saying they only get access to spells of certain schools of magic or with certain descriptors. Undead beware a full-attack action with Heal imbued on every swing.

 

[Ilium]

Thanks for the feedback, Ltheb.

Hmm. That would be some undead-smashing goodness. How about this for abuse: Channel a Cure Serious Wounds and full-attack your friends (declare you're doing non-lethal damage, of course). Have your sorcerer buddy cast Haste on you first and use two-weapon fighting for maximum cheese.

I'll have to think about it some more.

 

[Herzog]

You could, of course, construct a set list of spells taken from the cleric list, as has been done for the 'normal' duskblade in the first place.
You might include some spells with an automatic 'swift' descriptor, as has been done with some spells on the Duskblade list.

You might want to take a look at the paladin spell list for inspiration on constructing a reduced spell list for a divine warrior.

Herzog

 

[Technik4]

The main drawback to the duskblade is the insanely small spell lists. Giving access to the cleric's spell list is ludicrous (have you seen some of their spells?).

You are basically taking the cleric, one of the two most powerful classes in the game and:

-Raising the BAB to fighters
-Removing Turn Undead and Domains
-Keeping the HD, Skillpoints, and equivalent saving throws
-Allowing them to get into all kinds of crazy PrCs

I say no. First, I personally don't like the Duskblade much to begin with. The only thing that remotely balances the 'class' is the fact that it has a narrow spell list.

I do like the Charisma variant, however. Personally I think spontaneous-casting should remain with Charisma (as it is in core 3.x with bards and sorcerers). Int is a better stat all-around, and therefore favors the base duskblade by giving more skill points and access to martial feats like Combat Expertise.

 

[dagger]

Thanks for the feedback, Ltheb.

Hmm. That would be some undead-smashing goodness. How about this for abuse: Channel a Cure Serious Wounds and full-attack your friends (declare you're doing non-lethal damage, of course). Have your sorcerer buddy cast Haste on you first and use two-weapon fighting for maximum cheese.

I'll have to think about it some more.

I would worry more about him using the 13th level ability to chanel Harm spells.

 

[Ilium]

You could, of course, construct a set list of spells taken from the cleric list, as has been done for the 'normal' duskblade in the first place.
You might include some spells with an automatic 'swift' descriptor, as has been done with some spells on the Duskblade list.

You might want to take a look at the paladin spell list for inspiration on constructing a reduced spell list for a divine warrior.

Herzog

This would, of course, be the right way to do it. I'm just lazy I guess.
If any of my players are interested in this variant, I'll go to the trouble of building the list, keeping it mostly to reasonably-powered offensive, buff and movement spells, just like the "stock" duskblade. I really like the swift variants spells (not just for duskblades but in general) so I'd include those as well.

Sounds like most people don't have a problem with the Charisma variant, so I'll probably allow that as-is.

Thanks for the input, everybody.