Adjustment for underequipped party

[Herzog]

Hi all,

I'm currently running a campaign that is rather low on magic item availability. Although I have been able to avoid major problems, I have occasionally run into situations where the party just isn't equipped to deal with a situation or opponent.

The party is now nearing lvl 10, and I have seen a dramatic increase in potentially lethal situations due to equipment problems when running pre-made adventures.

I've done some research, but all I could find on the subject was 'a DM should be able to match the encounters to the party equipment level'.

My question:
What's the best way to handle an underequipped party when choosing adventures?

I've thought about using adventures several levels lower than the party and then increasing the EL of the encounters by increasing the number of opponents (reducing the chance the opponent's AC and/or to hit are too high for the party) but I'm at the loss how much lower than the party the adventure should be.

Any thoughts?

Note that I do not want to fix the problem by adding equipment or providing bonusses to the party.

 

[Crothian]

It depends on what magical items they have. If their ACs are low then you'll have to worry about them being hit too often. If they have inferior weapons that can't get through DR then you have to be wary of that or if they have trouble hitting a high AC. You can always treat them as a level or two lower and aim for adventures that are for that level of characters.

 

[Herzog]

Although DR is a problem for some of the characters, the main problem lies with too-low to hit (they have at most +1 weapons) and too low AC (few or no armor class bonusses from items).

I understand using adventures aimed at lower level characters should help, but I'm wondering how low, and whether I should scale them up using additional opponents or not (since the main problem in the high level adventures lies with the solo-opponents which they simply can't handle)

Is there a rule of thumb you can offer?
I could, of course, examine their equipment and use that as a guideline for the level of adventure they should be able to handle.
If they have the equipment of a lvl 5 party, and I scale the encounters of a lvl 5 adventure to lvl 9 or 10, maybe that would work?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I'm not sure the question. Are you asking:
-what sorts of items to give your players?
-how in story to introduce the items you have in mind to your players?
-how to challenge your players without giving them more items?

If they're having difficulty hitting, it's a matter of math. Increase AC and attack bonuses with the appropriate gear.


I think the solution to working with an under-equipped party is 2 fold: Better equipment and creative players.

Magical gear itself is so much more than this basic math. Magic gear should provide options not ordinarily available. Slippers of Spider Climbing grant the ability to attack from the ceiling (Higher ground and creative flanking positioning!). a Ring of Blinking makes your actual AC number a little less important. Heck, a Folding Boat can actually be dropped in battle as a barrier between the party and enemies.

As the DM, find ways to get useful items in your players hands. Encourage them to rise to larger challenges, not tailor make the challenges easy. At least, that's my 2 cents. If your players really want to simply hit things and not get hit, if thy're unwilling to be creative, then you've got a different problem than not enough gear.

 

[Celebrim]

Insufficient items decreases the parties effective level by about 20% and by more than that (25-30%) if the party can't compensate because it has few (less than 2) full spell-casters. Additionally, the effective CR of a monster goes up by 1-2 depending on how much the monster's CR rating depends on the assumption that the party will have magical counters. For example, any monster that has DR/magic has its CR increased by about 1 if the party lacks magic items. Whereas, monsters with some combination of invisibility, energy drain, gaze attacks, sonic attacks, auras, poison and the like that might otherwise be simply countered by spells (faerie fire, glitterdust, neutralize poison, restoration, death ward, etc.) can have their effective CR increased by around 2.

 

[Herzog]

@RUMBLETiGER :
picking from your list:
I am asking how to challenge my players without giving them more items.

The D&D 3.5 system simple expects a certain amount of magic items in the party to be able to handle monsters of a level appropriate challenge. Since the characters do not have the expected magic items (and I do not plan on giving them to them) they are having problems with the encounters. I am trying to find a rule of thumb to be able to use premade adventures without ending up with a TPK.
@Celebrim :
If I understand you correctly, since the effective CR of a creature goes up with 1-2, I should be relatively safe if I only use monsters with a CR of 2 below the average party level.
I can then regain the correct EL by increasing the amount of monsters.

There are three full casters in the party (a Cleric, a Wizard and a Psion) and two semi-casters (a ranger/sorcerer and a barbarian/champion of gwynharwyf) but the cleric and Psion are very inexperienced and have difficulty optimizing their spell selection, whereas the Wizard is rather experienced but has a very limited spell selection (which is my fault and related to the limited number of magic items available. again, not something that is likely to change very soon). They have recognized that they should be able to compensate for some of the equipment they lack by using buff spells, but haven't gotten around to actually implementing that yet.

I am currently considering using adventures 2 or more levels lower than their average party level (or 80% of the average party level, whichever is lower), and scaling up by increasing the number of opponents. I recognize that could lead to encounters actually becoming too easy, but at the moment it's the best idea I've come up with.

 

[Celebrim]

If I understand you correctly, since the effective CR of a creature goes up with 1-2, I should be relatively safe if I only use monsters with a CR of 2 below the average party level.

Well, it depends.

If your party is low level, that will certainly be true. In fact, that might be using too soft of a touch.

Let's say your party is 5th level but have basically no magic items. You can treat them as 4th level and that should do fine against encounters with monsters of CR 2-6 as normal. However, all CR ratings are subjective and suspect. You need to inspect the monsters and see whether or not there is an assumption in the CR rating that the party has a counter to the monsters attacks and defenses. A typical CR 5 monster with DR 10/magic does not increase its CR on account of that DR because the assumption is that most 5th level parties will have a range of magical items. If your party has no magic items, the expected results will be more like sending a 4th level party versus a CR 6 monster (rather than a 5th level party versus a CR 5 monster).

On the other hand, something like a Dire Lion can be treated as being still basically CR 5 because its just a non-magical brute. Your party is only marginally worse off, a lost point or two of AC, a lost point or two of damage per attack. So the expectation is for a result similar to sending a 4th level party to face a CR 5 monster.

I'm guessing caution is warranted. Because there are plenty of tools in 3e to subvert any low magic trope the DM implements and turn it into a situation where, "No one has magic but us." That the party has not done so suggests you don't want to turn the screws too hard.

I can then regain the correct EL by increasing the amount of monsters.

In general, 3e works better because of the action economy if you increase the number of foes compared to increasing the EL by increasing the CR of a single foe. This is regardless of what the issue is you are trying to solve.

There are three full casters in the party (a Cleric, a Wizard and a Psion) and two semi-casters (a ranger/sorcerer and a barbarian/champion of gwynharwyf) but the cleric and Psion are very inexperienced and have difficulty optimizing their spell selection, whereas the Wizard is rather experienced but has a very limited spell selection (which is my fault and related to the limited number of magic items available. again, not something that is likely to change very soon). They have recognized that they should be able to compensate for some of the equipment they lack by using buff spells, but haven't gotten around to actually implementing that yet.

With 5 casters in the party - including 3 of the 4 Tier 1 classes - if they have any idea what they are doing at all, they'll soon be able to overcome any missing treasure handily. Have you also banned item creation feats?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

@RUMBLETiGER :
picking from your list:
I am asking how to challenge my players without giving them more items.

Ah, gotcha.

Perhaps make adjustments to the individual monsters themselves in the pre-made encounters. If is it a matter of overcoming DR or SR, reduce that resistance for that monster and retain all other stats and abilities. If they are having a hard time resisting an effect, lower the DC to succeed against that effect. Let them still enjoy the experience of fighting that Dragon/Wight/Beholder/whatever, but water them down a smidgen.

If this feels wrong, or simply too much work, than do what you're doing, drop CR by 1 or 2, and increase the amount of enemies per encounter.

Also, I don't know your players, would they appreciate being educated in what their characters can do? A Cleric and a Psion have sooo many options available, perhaps being shown the variety of abilities available would be encouraging. If your players are the "I'll figure it myself" kind, then nevermind.

 

[NuSair]

Take a piece of paper and write out a chart, something like:
Character name / class(es)/level/ AC / HP / attacks / damage / spells / other notes

Then compare those numbers to the encounters you'll be putting them up against. For easy encounters- look for something that it takes players say a 3 to 6 to hit, moderately hard- 6 to 8, average- 8 to 12, challenging 12-15, maybe rethink this encounter 16+ (can do the reverse with monsters).

That is very general, as you have to take into account spells, magic items and other factors, but it should give you a good idea of where you are headed.

Also something to be wary of is in 3.5 magic users (divine and arcane) tend to be very powerful in a low magic campaign, unless you really limit their access to spells. Which, depending on the players may make it uninteresting or challenging.

 

[Herobizkit]

Here is a rules variant found in the Unearthed Arcana that might work for the AC of your heroes.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm

As for their to hit and saving throws...

You could try converting the monsters to 5e using these quick conversion guidelines:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...athfinder-monsters-to-D-amp-D-Next-on-the-fly

The assumption is that 5e monsters have lower AC and saving throws but have about as many HP and do as much damage as their 3.x counterparts.