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D&D 5E Ability Check origins at your table
- Thread starter Swarmkeeper
- Start date
overgeeked
B/X Known World
The mechanics of the game represent the fiction of the game world. There’s no such thing as “just interacting with the mechanics” because they do not exist independent of the fiction. However, it’s quite possible to (and for some preferable to) interact with the fiction without interacting with the mechanics.
ETA: To put it another way, your character can see what’s around them because they have eyes…not because they have some modifier listed under the Perception skill. You don’t need to roll Perception to see something. You can just see it. Ask the referee and most likely they’ll tell you. If the referee thinks there’s a chance you might miss something important, then they can call for a Perception check.
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AmandaBarbarian
Explorer
okay walk me through how this works... didn't this start when I asked "Hey what if I call for a skill check" and you said you didn't want the game interacted just as a mechanic, but now you are saying it can't be just a mechanic?!? so what is it when I call for an insight check?
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
You didn't use the right code words of "I'm eyeing him up to see if he gives off any insincere vibes".
Now, I can see that the right code words do make for a more immersive experience, however, I'm not particularly doctrinaire about it. Both get the job done and I will usually use the more descriptive language to describe the results ("Oh, he seems to give off a shady vibe when he says that like he may be not fully straight with you") in an effort to encourage more description on the player's side of things if they say they want an insight check on the bartender.
AmandaBarbarian
Explorer
am I just not as used to this as you guys? I have what I call 'bad days' and when I am having one don't want to have to use the immersive words.You didn't use the right code words of "I'm eyeing him up to see if he gives off any insincere vibes".
Now, I can see that the right code words do make for a more immersive experience, however, I'm not particularly doctrinaire about it. Both get the job done and I will usually use the more descriptive language to describe the results ("Oh, he seems to give off a shady vibe when he says that like he may be not fully straight with you") in an effort to encourage more description on the player's side of things if they say they want an insight check on the bartender.
Yup it’s jeopardy rules “you gave the right answer but forgot to phrase it like a question so no points” if you like that idea cool but I don’t.You didn't use the right code words of "I'm eyeing him up to see if he gives off any insincere vibes".
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
The issue of describing things mechanically vs descriptively has been around a long time, but I think it came to particularly salience on these boards with the rise in the influence of narrative game designs and mantras like "say yes or roll the dice". A lot of it comes down to a reaction against 3e as well where there are defined checks for a lot of things whereas 5e encourages DM adjudication if the outcome isn't really in doubt and only rolling if there's uncertainty that matters.
overgeeked
B/X Known World
As you can see from some of the responses, immersive play isn’t everyone’s cuppa.
What triggers a game mechanic? Something in the fiction happening that would, at the referee’s discretion, trigger the mechanic. As said before, you want to make a roll…okay, what does that look like? What’s happening in the fiction? It can be as simple as “I think he’s lying.” “Okay. Make an Insight check.”
Do you notice how “I want to make an Insight check” skips over even the thin veneer of characterization that “I think he’s lying” provides? It puts the mechanics first instead of the fiction. It’s not about using a magic phrase to unlock mechanics as some strawman arguments claim. It’s about keeping the fiction front and center.
To me, “I roll Insight” feels like a video game. It’s smashing a button on a character sheet and ignoring the world. That’s not what I play tabletop RPGs for. I play for the immersion. Playing fiction-first does that. “Play worlds, not rules” and all that.
Swarmkeeper
Hero
At our table, the player just tells the DM what their character is doing in the fiction. It really is that simple.
If the DM has just described the room and the player says "I use Perception"... well the DM just described the room, you don't need to roll or "use Perception". Instead, we're encouraging the player to engage with the details that the DM just spent their time telling them about. We're encouraging the player to do some of the work of the shared story telling. That is all that we're aiming for. Which is why "I'd like to more closely inspect the rug/tapestry/statue/whatever" is preferred over "Can I use Investigate?" It's not magic words. There's no right way to act as your character. First person or third person, doesn't matter. It's just giving the DM something to work with, something that adds to the shared imagery in everyone's mind and that the DM can adjudicate.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Honestly, "I think he's lying" seems to me like it's skipping over it as well since it's the player's determination of how their PC feels rather than looking for any evidence that might have them rendering that judgment. So, no check necessary, I guess?
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