D&D 4E 4th Edition and the 'Adventuring Day'

[pemerton]

I had thought about racial and feat powers that can vary a character's total, but Glass was saying that Blue's quoted statement was untrue. Blue's statement was that "In 4e all of the classes (pre-Essentials) had the exact same amount of at-will, encounter, and daily powers."

Not sure if they are talking about class features or something else that can vary or what.

Well, as I posted, Turn Undead is a class power that varies the number of encounter attack powers a cleric has access to.

 

[glass]

Can you give some examples?

I could, but @pemerton has saved me the trouble. Although your nitpicking two of their examples while ignoring the one that you could not nitpick does little to convince me you were asking in good faith. EDIT: Sorry, you did not ignore it. I somehow missed that part of your post.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Although your nitpicking two of their examples while ignoring the one that you could not nitpick does little to convince me you were asking in good faith.

Mod Note:

It’s a tad early to be slinging those kinds of accusations around, isn’t it?

 

[Blue]

Just as a note, this is not true. The number of at-wills, encounters, and dailies (even aside from utilities) will always be broadly similar pre-PHB3, but it is not identical even in the first PHB. I do not think Blue meant it in an edition-warry way, but it is a common edition-warrior talking point so it needs correcting IMO.

I just pulled out my 4e PHB. Outside of class features and utilities, it really seems each does get the same, can you tell me where in the PHB they get different? I went through the first few classes writing them out but it was taking a long time.

Which PHB classes differ from 1st: A+E+D, 3rd: E, 5th: D, 7th: E, 9th: E, 13th: E, 15th: D, 17th: E: 19th: D, 23rd: E, 25: D, 27th: E, 29: D.

As a side note, I'm not sure why you brought up edition warring if no one is talking about that.

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[pemerton]

Which PHB classes differ from 1st: A+E+D, 3rd: E, 5th: D, 7th: E, 9th: E, 13th: E, 15th: D, 17th: E: 19th: D, 23rd: E, 25: D, 27th: E, 29: D.

The cleric gets an encounter attack power vs undead from 1st level: Turn Undead.

 

[Voadam]

I could, but @pemerton has saved me the trouble. Although your nitpicking two of their examples while ignoring the one that you could not nitpick does little to convince me you were asking in good faith.

Ignoring?

Not sure if they are talking about class features or something else that can vary or what.

Is the cleric thing not a class feature?

So I am guessing you are implying class features.

Class features can vary and even be a full on extra encounter power. A warlord can use an encounter based inspiring word as a warlord class feature outside of the universal power gain structure while a rogue can sneak attack every round as a class feature.

This is a small class based variance from everybody having the same AEDU number of powers but not one I normally think of when considering 4e class AEDU powers.

It would certainly not be a strong argument for those who feel that the consistent power structure allotment of 4e class design is a bug and not a feature. The variance of some classes having an extra encounter power instead of an always available class feature seems small. One might call it a nitpick.

 

[glass]

I just pulled out my 4e PHB. Outside of class features and utilities, it really seems each does get the same, can you tell me where in the PHB they get different?

(Bolding mine). Yes, if you exclude the things that make them different, then they are the same.

Is the cleric thing not a class feature?

Yes it is. Apologies, for saying that you had ignored them; I could have sworn that line was not there when I first responded, but you post does not say it has been edited so I must have just missed it.

So I am guessing you are implying class features.

Yes, I was. The reason I was not explicit in my first post was because it was a minor side issue and I did not want it to take over my post (which was mostly about other things) or the thread. So that worked well! Subsequently I did not think I needed to be more explicit because @pemerton already had. I was not being coy.

It would certainly not be a strong argument for those who feel that the consistent power structure allotment of 4e class design is a bug and not a feature. The variance of some classes having an extra encounter power instead of an always available class feature seems small. One might call it a nitpick.

I explicitly said that the the powers of each class were "broadly similar", just not identical. Yes, 4e absolutely had a "consistent power structure" as you put it, and some people disliked that. But a lot of people also dislike the imaginary version of 4e that only existed in their heads (and in edition-warrior talking points on the Internet), so even relatively small corrections have value IMHO. And personally, I do not think "consistent" vs "literally identical" is that small a distinction (if it was that small, there would be no reason for edition warriors to keep pretending it was the latter rather than the former).

I also, in the post you initially responded to, mentioned PHB3 which for some of its classes have no Encounter* powers at all, instead a pool of per-encounter points that augment their At Wills Which is a much bigger pre-Essentials difference and definitely not a nitpick.

Sorry again for misreading your initial post. But my broader point still stands.

(* In the normal structure - I cannot be bothered to go an check if they get any from features).

 

[Red Castle]

I also, in the post you initially responded to, mentioned PHB3 which for some of its classes have no Encounter* powers at all, instead a pool of per-encounter points that augment their At Wills Which is a much bigger pre-Essentials difference and definitely not a nitpick.

PH3 also introduced the Skills utility powers that you could use a Feat to get, which would give the character one more power.

I quite like those powers.

 

[pemerton]

PH3 also introduced the Skills utility powers that you could use a Feat to get, which would give the character one more power.

I quite like those powers.

Three of 5 PCs in my game had those powers either from feat or in lieu of a class-based utility power.

 

[Blue]

The cleric gets an encounter attack power vs undead from 1st level: Turn Undead.

I thought I had covered that in "Outside of class features and utilities, it really seems each does get the same, can you tell me where in the PHB they get different".

(Italics new.)

They all get the same level progression, there might be some class features that have timings, sure.