D&D 4E 4e core or essential?

[teitan]

I am going to be teaching some people how to play D&D in a few weeks and they want to try 4e instead of trying to find some 3e books etc. Now my question is... I have the 4e DM's Guide but I was wondering if it would be better to pick up essentials vs. the other two core rules for 4e. To get the classic D&D flavour it seems I should go with the D&D Essentials stuff with the Heroes books, the Compendium and Monster Vault (was going to get it instead anyway, a little cheaper than the MM on Amazon) would cost a little more. Is it easier to learn and teach from Essentials or about the same using the core books? What are the differences? What are the options pros and cons?

 

[pemerton]

For building PCs, Essentials is easier due to (i) fewer options and (ii) clearer presentation.

If you're starting with pregens (which I might be tempted to do in your situation) this won't matter.

For play in combat, the Essentials martial classes are probably a bit simpler to play. The divine and arcane classes probably aren't much difference.

For play out of combat, core clerics and wizards get rituals which the Essentials casters don't. This may be a plus or a minus, depending on what your new players are looking for in a spell caster.

Also for play out of combat, the Essentials skill descriptions and suggested uses of skills are far far better than those in the PHB.

I've never tried to teach new RPGers 4e, but if I was going to I'd probably (i) build the PC myself, based on their description of what they want their PC to be able to do, (ii) give them a copy of the Essentials skill descriptions for the skills of their PC, and then (iii) talk them through the first combat using their character sheet as a reference tool. I think trying to hand the combat rules to new players and expecting them to work it out for themselves won't work unless they're a hardcore gamer already.

I'd also be tempted to start with a non-combat encounter/skill challenge rather than a combat encounter, because I think a new player will find their skills easier to work with than their combat powers - even if playing an Essentials PC.

 

[OnlineDM]

Go with the Essentials books. The Monster Vault is far superior to the Monster Manual 1 in my opinion, and it's not really that close. The monster math is better, and the fluff around the descriptions of the monsters in the Monster Vault is far more useful in building encounters with those monsters. That's even without the tokens or the adventure (which you may or may not want to use).

As for the player books, I think the Essentials books are a better introduction to the game for new players. As with the Monster Vault, the fluff is more evocative, and it helps that some of the classes are much less overwhelming with choices (Slayer, Knight, Thief, etc.). Even the more complex classes (Warpriest, Mage) that have the standard 4e at-will/encounter/daily power structure don't present as many different powers to choose from, which I think is good for newer players. Don't overwhelm them.

If you get to the point that your players want more options and more customization, move on to the core 4e books (or just get a DDI subscription and use the Character Builder). But for starting off, I strongly recommend Essentials.

And yes, the Rules Compendium is a very handy reference to have with you when playing 4e.

Have fun!

 

[samursus]

I'd also advise using the Essentials books for new players. For the same reasons mentioned by the 2 posters before me.

 

[Dice4Hire]

For new players, yes, essentials is probably good.

But I would watch the monsters in the MV. They are really deadly, even for experienced players. For Newbies, they might be too good. I'd go with more minions and light on the xp budget (and nothing above level at all) for a while.

 

[Jhaelen]

For new players, yes, essentials is probably good.

Agreed.

Myself, I don't care about Essentials, but I have been spoiled by having read the 'classic' 4e books first. But as a starting point Essentials is arguably better suited.

 

[Rel]

I think you'll probably get the most useful feedback in the 4e forum so I'll slide this over there.

 

[filthgrinder]

The Essentials are designed as the "easy on ramp" into D&D. So, all the Essentials books are focused around new players.

With intro-ing new players into the game, it's all about their experience with games/gaming. However, brand spanking new people, I using pre-gens might be good. The new red box has a neat "choose your own adventure" style character creation, which works really well for one person, but isn't so hot for a group.

I'd say, go with Essentials, pregen a balanced party of classes, and then let your players pick. After the first session/adventure. Open it up, allow them to make the character of their choice, or continue on. Once they've got the hang of the game, Essentials or core wont matter as they blend together without a problem.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I'm actually going to go against the grain here and say to pick up the first Player's Handbook instead.

Here's the thing... if you are going to be teaching them how to play 4E and you hand them pre-generated characters... 1st level characters of classic and Essentials are both so light on things to worry about (you have a couple class abilities and all of three to five powers) if your players can't get a handle on those few things within the first half-hour of playing, you've got bigger issues ahead of you. Sure Essentials might be 'easier' in direct comparison, but both versions are pretty easy to grasp that the differences in my opinion are negligible.

Thus, it all comes down to PRICE. Since you already own the 4E DMG (which includes a module in the back of it, Kobold Hall)... all you'd need to pick up is the Player's Handbook. You don't need to get a monster book yet because Kobold Hall includes the monster stats, or if you wanted to use a different one, you can pick up Keep On The Shadowfell for free on the Wizards site (and that includes all monsters needed as well). Since this is purely a test practice to see if your friends like the game, why buy extra books when you don't yet know if you're going to need them?

And the advantage of the Player's Handbook is you get eight classes and eight races in one book, rather than 5 and 5 in either Heroes book. If cost matters (especially if you still have no idea whether this game might continue past this one-time learning experience), buying all the Essentials products could be an expensive overkill.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm actually going to go against the grain here and say to pick up the first Player's Handbook instead.

Here's the thing... if you are going to be teaching them how to play 4E and you hand them pre-generated characters... 1st level characters of classic and Essentials are both so light on things to worry about (you have a couple class abilities and all of three to five powers) if your players can't get a handle on those few things within the first half-hour of playing, you've got bigger issues ahead of you. Sure Essentials might be 'easier' in direct comparison, but both versions are pretty easy to grasp that the differences in my opinion are negligible.

And here I disagree. There are some people who just want to be able to say "I hit it". The focus in Essentials of everything a Martial character does being some form of basic attack really simplifies matters. And the Essentials characters don't track who's marked/cursed/quarried/etc as class features.

Since this is purely a test practice to see if your friends like the game, why buy extra books when you don't yet know if you're going to need them?

Errata.

And the advantage of the Player's Handbook is you get eight classes and eight races in one book, rather than 5 and 5 in either Heroes book.

But either paperback is cheaper than the hardback. Monster Vault vs MM1 at low levels is no contest at all (and at high levels MM1 monsters simply don't cut it so although MV has fewer epic monsters it really isn't missing much - and has no Dracoliches, Purple Worms, Needlefang Drake Swarms, or Wraiths*).

And as for five classes vs eight, cancel the Warlock - that thing is not for newbies. The wizard in the PHB has some serious problems - not so in Essentials. And I'm not sure that the pre Divine Power Paladin works well enough either. Plus the Heroes books don't read like computer instruction manuals.

* Yes, I know it does have monsters by at least three of thoe names. But the MM1 version of each of those monsters is simply annoying and no fun at all - the MV monsters by the same name lack these problems.