D&D 3E/3.5 4CTF w/ 3E

[Cheiromancer]

This is for folks who are familiar with the 4CtF superhero rules, published by our very own Natural 20 press.

I am considering using hero points in a standard fantasy campaign. One of the things you can do with hero points is buy attribute increases- +2 to a physical attribute costs 3 hero points, +2 to a mental attribute costs 2 hero points. You can also buy a feat for 2 hero points.

The hero class is basically a commoner without any skills or skill points. But you get 8 hero points per level of hero (unless you are over 20th level, in which case you only get 4 hero points).

This raises the possibility of a spellcaster devoting a level to bumping up their prime requisite. If a wizard poured all 8 hero points into Intelligence (+8 intelligence), it would be like gaining skill focus and greater skill focus for all schools, plus he would get 4 extra skill points per level and a bunch of bonus spells.

Now, he does sacrifice a level of spellcasting. But it seems a very favorable trade.

Any comments? Is this use of hero points balanced in a standard fantasy setting?

 

[Forrester]

An excellent question -- I brought this up in a different thread here, but I think it was a bit too early (as I bought 4CTF the day it came out, and read it the day after).

Let me begin by saying I do not think that the strength boosts, Con boosts, or Dex boosts are too cheap. I think they're priced just right. Similarly, while Feats might be a little cheap, I don't think they're too underpriced, given that those who would most be interested in taking them (fighters) will be sacrificing hit points and BAB and such if they take nothing but feats.

However, Int, Wis, and Chr are clearly too cheap for 3E, for exactly the reason you mentioned. There are a few other problems with other abilities -- being permanently Hasted for 12 points, for instance. Blindsight is too cheap in 3E, given that you can ignore *all* illusions -- Mirror Image, Displacement, Invisibility, etc. etc.

This would be a good thread to suggest alternate costs, or caps.

First, Intelligence & such:

*ponders*

If the spellcaster has to actually *sacrifice a level* (in other words, take a level of Hero instead of Wizard), there's less danger of abuse. A wizard going from 11th to 12th level gets a bunch of bonus spells just because he's leveled. If he bumped his Intelligence up eight points, he'd also get a bunch of bonus spells -- but no skill points. So it's actually almost a wash, EXCEPT for the fact that the saves against all his spells are now at +4DC.

A simple "fix" for this might be to make a 2-point bump in Intelligence only give bonus spells, and not affect DC (much the way Heightened Strength gives a full strength boost, but Super Strength only gives a damage/lifting boost, and not a bonus to attack).

Yeah, that's it!

Make those abilities just like Str, Dex, and Con.
3 points for a full boost.
2 points for a partial boost, but not a "real" increase; maybe they get everything but a DC increase, or maybe they get everything but the bonus spells, or . . . YMMV.


(Maybe you should rename this subject Hero Points & 3E, or 4CTF Hero Points w/3E, or somethin' . . . )


EDIT: We should determine exactly how many bonus spells a wizard would get if he took a level of Hero (and did +8 Int) instead of just normally leveling. Maybe it's balanced after all.

Say a 5th level wizard (who can spend 8 points on increasing a stat) takes a level of Hero instead of becoming 6th level.

How many bonus spells does he get from going from 18Int to 24 Int, vs becoming a 6th level wizard instead?

How about 9th to 10th level? 13th to 14th?

 

[Cheiromancer]

I think your suggestion is right on the money. Two hero points gives everything a +2 in a mental stat gives except the bonus to spell DC. Three hero points gives you the bonus too.

As regards to the question about bonus spells, here is what I get from Table 1-1 in the PHB.

12-13 a 1st level spell
14-15 a 2nd level spell
16-17 a 3rd level spell
18-19 a 4rth level spell
20-21 a 1st and a 5th level spell
22-23 a 2nd and a 6th level spell
24-25 a 3rd and a 7th level spell
26-27 a 4th and and an 8th level spell
28-29 a 1st, a 5th, and a 9th level spell

Bonuses are cumulative.

When a wizard goes from 17th to 18th level, he picks up an 8th and a 9th level spell. From 18th to 19th they get a 7th and a 9th level spell. From 19th to 20th it's an 8th and a 9th level spell again.

I don't think it is a no-brainer that wizards take a level or two of hero, at least with the 3 point rule. In fact, since it delays the acquisition of 9th level spells, wizards may wish to wait until 17th level. I don't know if the goodies of being an epic wizard are such that they would mind the delay.

All in all, I think it is pretty fair.

 

[Forrester]

*BUMP*