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D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Fighter

I rushed out my earlier comment in this thread because i had to run and didn't really get to the main issue I have with the new fighter additions. One of the big issues with the battle master is that you pick the best maneuvers as soon as you get the subclass and each time you get new maneuvers, you get ones you like less and less. It's a system where you get worse stuff the higher your level gets. The longer you go, the worse the leftovers that you get.

Masteries are the same thing! You pick the masteries you really want up front and then as you level you get the ones that are worse and worse. You get everything you want first, and the rest is relative garbage. What they really need is special higher level masteries that only the fighter can get and are actually better than what you get early on instead of just leftovers. Spell casters get higher level spells as they progress and this is common sense - let the damn fighter get higher level masteries instead of more fighter-cantrips that are the unwanted trash.

The other glaring issue is the basic concept of the new design - constant weapon switching as a means of adaptability. In a real game, weapon users don't usually switch weapons all over the place, but instead invest in feats for a specific type of weapon and hold onto a specific magic weapon. The greatweapon player is never going to put down his +3 greatsword with greatweapon master damage in order to pull out a +0 mace. Real games don't work that way.

What they need to do is just let fighters collect masteries and apply them to their signature weapon as an early and basic feature. That's how real players want weapon users to play. No one wants a goofy weapon-juggling fighter with a golf bag of weapons.

maybe they should remove this 3e style multi classing for 4e feat style...
They wouldn't do that, because it would make too much sense and be too easy to balance. It's a lot like bringing back the 5 minute short rest. All of the issues with the Warlock spell amount, Monk ki, second wind numbers, et al, just go away if you balance around encounter features and yet they're here floundering while making everything daily.
Yeah I understand that. But my issue is that it's an optional rule, not a core mechanic to the game. It's popular for sure, but it shouldn't be treated as if it's a main mechanic.
I've heard the claim that over half of all characters in 5e use the multiclass rules in the builder. If that's true, that's probably a strong majority of tables that have mutliclass characters. They absolutely have to balance the game around a core mechanic that most tables use.
 

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WanderingMystic

Adventurer
I rushed out my earlier comment in this thread because i had to run and didn't really get to the main issue I have with the new fighter additions. One of the big issues with the battle master is that you pick the best maneuvers as soon as you get the subclass and each time you get new maneuvers, you get ones you like less and less. It's a system where you get worse stuff the higher your level gets. The longer you go, the worse the leftovers that you get.

Masteries are the same thing! You pick the masteries you really want up front and then as you level you get the ones that are worse and worse. You get everything you want first, and the rest is relative garbage. What they really need is special higher level masteries that only the fighter can get and are actually better than what you get early on instead of just leftovers. Spell casters get higher level spells as they progress and this is common sense - let the damn fighter get higher level masteries instead of more fighter-cantrips that are the unwanted trash.

What they need to do is just let fighters collect masteries and apply them to their signature weapon as an early and basic feature. That's how real players want weapon users to play. No one wants a goofy weapon-juggling fighter with a golf bag of weapons.
This.
 


Masteries are the same thing! You pick the masteries you really want up front and then as you level you get the ones that are worse and worse. You get everything you want first, and the rest is relative garbage. What they really need is special higher level masteries that only the fighter can get and are actually better than what you get early on instead of just leftovers. Spell casters get higher level spells as they progress and this is common sense - let the damn fighter get higher level masteries instead of more fighter-cantrips that are the unwanted trash.
Just another example of WotC not having a clue what to do with the fighter in tier 3 or tier 4. I've suggested dropping Fighting Style for everyone, replacing them with Masteries - and dropping all the fighter masteries to level 1 because they aren't out of place there.

On the other hand there is some scaling to them. Cleave, for example, gets better as you get magic weapons - and when you have two attacks in a turn you can e.g. trigger both Cleave and Topple. But this is more due to the attack scaling.
The other glaring issue is the basic concept of the new design - constant weapon switching as a means of adaptability.
I don't think that's how they are meant to be used. I think it's meant to be emphasising theme; a character who wields a greataxe skillfully is meant to lay waste to those around them while longsword wielders are one handed fighters who are just good at what they do. Which is also why fighters get to switch the masteries on their weapon.

It's when you get into the once per turn masteries that things get silly. People who start with a halberd to use cleave then drop it to use a glaive for their second attack to topple and drop both those to get a scimitar and nick. (I might have the exact abilities wrong)
 

Just noticed that the Fighter lost 1 of their extra Feats which could be used to patch holes, another minus on the diversity of build and utility scoreboard.
No they didn't. The extra feat at level 6 moved to level 5 and at level 14 moved to level 15. They're still there - and the level 15 feat in particular is a good case of having to take something that wasn't good enough at level 4 and you've already maxed strength and grabbed the synergies.

There's more build diversity from feats in OneD&D because feats are now generally better than ASIs and it's not a case of either-or.
 

ChameleonX

Explorer
A summary of my thoughts:

Persuasion skill is good.

I like the weapon mastery system. I agree, however, that there should be Greater Mastery effects, or some other upgrade that you unlock to make it stronger at higher levels.

I hate the restriction to Action Surge. The base class shouldn't be nerfed just to defang MC issues.

I agree that Indomitable should scale better. I support the suggestion that you should have to burn uses of Second Wind to do it, and then at 17th level you also get healed.

While I would love maneuvers to be folded into the base fighter, I know that's not happening. So, I would rather they focus on improving the Battlemaster instead. Perhaps by giving them more powerful maneuvers that can be used once per day, but don't use their dice?
 

Eubani

Legend
No they didn't. The extra feat at level 6 moved to level 5 and at level 14 moved to level 15. They're still there - and the level 15 feat in particular is a good case of having to take something that wasn't good enough at level 4 and you've already maxed strength and grabbed the synergies.

There's more build diversity from feats in OneD&D because feats are now generally better than ASIs and it's not a case of either-or.
I missed the 15
 

Pauln6

Hero
A change to action surge was a no-brainer. Are people annoyed that they changed it all or are they unhappy at the way it was changed? I would have thought the only thing they needed to exclude was casting a spell/magic action? Multi-class fighters can still cast a spell with their first action after all, just not their action surge action (although this could always be a higher level feature for the Eldritch Knight I suppose).
 


ZetaShift

Eternity will pass before I stop playing Monks
I've heard the claim that over half of all characters in 5e use the multiclass rules in the builder. If that's true, that's probably a strong majority of tables that have mutliclass characters. They absolutely have to balance the game around a core mechanic that most tables use.
I guess it's comes from different opinions on multiclassing. Personally speaking, I don't really like how multiclassing is sometimes the default leaving endgame classes especially barren. And it can lead to some extremely absurd builds, easily outclassing straight classing in alot of cases. Tis why I believe the system should be worked around the core game. But each to their own.
 

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