D&D 3E/3.5 3.5e rule, Invisivility and Total Concealment

[Shin Okada]

Strictly speaking, what are the mechanic differences between being invisible and just having total concealment (such as Shadow Dragon in somewhat dark environment)?

I know that invisible creatures can be seen via See Invisibility or similar abilities but something just have total concealment may not be. But how about other rules?

Do you need listen or spot skill checks to pinpoint the location of such a creature?

Does such a creature gain +2 bonus to attack?

Is there any other difference which I must have in mind when handling such a creature?

 

[Tovec]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm
references..
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#invisible
which in turn references..
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#invisibility

and through those you can find the answers to most of your questions.

Mechanically, an invisible creatures cannot be seen and essentially DOES have total concealment. (see the third link)
Otherwise a totally concealed creature (through non-invisible means) cannot attack.

The other 'rules' you are asking can be found in those three links.

Yes they gain a +2 against sighted creatures. (per second link)

Hope this helps. SRD FTW!

 

[Vegepygmy]

Strictly speaking, what are the mechanic differences between being invisible and just having total concealment (such as Shadow Dragon in somewhat dark environment)?

Invisibility is just one way of gaining total concealment.

In other words, if I'm invisible to you, I have total concealment from you...but having total concealment from you doesn't necessarily mean I'm invisible.

 

[Shin Okada]

Invisibility is just one way of gaining total concealment.

In other words, if I'm invisible to you, I have total concealment from you...but having total concealment from you doesn't necessarily mean I'm invisible.

I guess that is the RAI. But I was not 100% sure from RAW point of view, as all the rules are written under the sections named "Invisible" or "Invisibility".

 

[Vegepygmy]

I guess that is the RAI. But I was not 100% sure from RAW point of view, as all the rules are written under the sections named "Invisible" or "Invisibility".

I'm not certain which rules you're referring to, and I don't mean to quibble, but my PHB has a section titled "Concealment" (page 152) that seems to include all of the pertinent rules.

 

[Shin Okada]

I'm not certain which rules you're referring to, and I don't mean to quibble, but my PHB has a section titled "Concealment" (page 152) that seems to include all of the pertinent rules.

+2 Attack roll modifier is in P.151 Table 8-5. And that table says when the attacker is "Invisible".

"Listen Check DCs to Detect Invisible Creatures" Table and related rules are in DMG P.295 under "Invisibility" entry. And the entry does not say if that is applicable to a creature who has total concealment but not invisible.

So I was uncertain if such a creature gains +2 bonus to attack or not, and also uncertain if pinpointing via Listen/Spot checks are applied or not.

 

[smuckenfart]

What if you're inside a Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum. Is that considered concealment or total concealment?
ie. Is the "dark foggy mass" outsiders see the equivalent of "a cloud of smoke", eligible for a 20% miss chance, or is it akin to total darkness for a 50% miss chance?

 

[Voadam]

What if you're inside a Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum. Is that considered concealment or total concealment?
ie. Is the "dark foggy mass" outsiders see the equivalent of "a cloud of smoke", eligible for a 20% miss chance, or is it akin to total darkness for a 50% miss chance?

MPS:

"This spell ensures privacy. Anyone looking into the area from outside sees only a dark, foggy mass. Darkvision cannot penetrate it."

"Total Concealment
If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment)."

I would interpret that as not line of sight so total concealment. They see only the dark foggy mass, not a partially obscuring cloud of smoke.