D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Monks and Shields

RigaMortus

Explorer
So what is the benefit of the Animated Shield then? It doesn't seem to reduce any penalities or grant any benefits.

If a (3.0) Ranger was Two-Weapon Fighting, and had a Buckler on his off-hand, if he attacks with that off-hand, then he gets no AC from that Buckler for that round, according to the rules. This, to me, is a penalty of wearing a shield on your hand, and attacking with that hand.

So if I had an Animated Shield, and attcked with my off-hand, then I suppose the Animated Shield would not give me an AC bonus, would it? Why would it negate this penalty and none of the other ones? Doesn't seem to make sense to me.
 

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Caliban

Rules Monkey
niteshade6 said:
"If animated shields carry with them all the associated penalties of normal shields, would you apply the arcane spell failure to an arcane caster with one?"

Yes because all penalties apply by the letter of the rules.

No, by the letter of the rules the penalties apply when you are wearing the armor or shield. (See the armor section of the PHB.)

Since you aren't wearing the shield, then by the letter of the rules, you don't get the penalty.

Pretty simple actually.
 

Sm!le

Explorer
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The interesting thing about this is that it does say "A character with an animated shield still takes any penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chane, and nonproficiency."
Because it states this my guesses are:

In Dungeons & Dragons 3.5e, the penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency, are mentioned for the animated shield to maintain game balance. While the rules don't explicitly specify the reasons behind these penalties, players and Dungeon Masters are encouraged to use their imagination and common sense to interpret and apply the rules in a way that makes sense within the game world.

Here are some possible reasons why an animated shield might incur penalties:

  1. Limited Visibility: The animated shield might obstruct the wielder's vision. This limitation could make it more challenging for the character to perceive their surroundings, affecting skills like Spot and Search, and potentially contributing to the armor check penalty. Also getting in the way of your attacks.
  2. Interference with Movement: The animated shield follows your body. So it actually might get into the way of your attacks or of your arms or legs. As you reach for things or attack things. It could hinder the character's movements, especially in situations that require agility or dexterity, such as climbing or combat. It might get in the way or affect the character's ability to see and grab different hand holds or branches.
  3. Arcane Spell Failure: The magical nature of the animated shield may introduce complexities when casting arcane spells. The magical energies surrounding the shield might interfere with the precise gestures and incantations required for spellcasting, resulting in an arcane spell failure chance.
Remember, these are interpretations to provide logical explanations for the penalties. The Dungeon Master has the flexibility to adjust or modify these reasons based on the campaign setting and the specific magical properties of the animated shield in their world. It's always a good idea for players and DMs to discuss and agree on such interpretations to ensure a consistent and enjoyable gaming experience.
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The Force Shield described in Dungeons & Dragons 3.5e is a magical ring that creates a shield-sized wall of force, and it comes with some unique properties that distinguish it from a traditional animated shield. Here are reasons why a Force Shield might not have the typical penalties associated with shield use:

  1. No Visibility Issues: Unlike an animated shield, the Force Shield is described as a wall of force. This implies that it doesn't obstruct the wearer's vision. The force field allows the character to see through it, eliminating the limitations on visibility that might come with a physical shield. This absence of visibility issues can justify the lack of an armor check penalty and arcane spell failure chance.
  2. Weightless and Encumbrance-Free: The Force Shield ring is attached to your finger. Small moves of just a finger can move the shield quickly. It is explicitly mentioned as weightless and encumbrance-free. This suggests that it doesn't interfere with the character's movements or impose any restrictions on their agility. As a result, there's no need for a nonproficiency penalty, and the character can move freely without hindrance.
  3. Activation and Deactivation as a Free Action: The Force Shield can be activated and deactivated at will as a free action. This instantaneous and seamless control allows the character to bring up the shield only when needed, such as during combat, and dismiss it when it's not required. This flexibility contributes to the ease of use and justifies the lack of penalties.
In summary, the unique magical properties of the Force Shield, such as its transparency, lack of weight, and the ability to activate and deactivate it freely, are designed to mitigate the typical penalties associated with traditional shields. These properties make the Force Shield a more versatile and user-friendly option for any of your characters, especially spellcasters who might want the benefits of a shield without the usual drawbacks.
 
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Sm!le

Explorer
It is interesting indeed. I was hoping to find an answer for this but, apparently there isn't one. I would say just talk to your GM. You should have open communication with them. It is his world let him decide.


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"A good, and comprehensive post.

But bear in mind that quoting the 3.5 rules in a discussion from twenty years ago about the 3.0 rules, and long after the participants have likely left the site, is of limited utility."

Thank you. Well, I'm currently playing Dungeons and Dragons 3.5e on roll20. And it would be useful for other people looking on the Internet to find some sort of decision on this. And apparently you found it and thought it was "good."
 
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Sm!le

Explorer
I think that Yes! A monk should be able to use the [Force Shield] ring.
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Because they don't even need their hands empty to do a Flurry of Blows with the Unarmed Strike. Now if you're talking to two handed quarter staff then it might have some small problems.
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Even if she had to use both hands to wield this weightless, unencumbered wall of force. She could still do a Flurry of Blows with her Unarmed Strike, or even attacks of opportunity with her Unarmed Strike. While the ring is active. That's why I think it it should be allowed for that. But if they were wielding a quarterstaff. Then there might be some problems.

Even if a monk is handcuffed, it can still do a flurry of blows with its Unarmed Strike at its full attack bonus and full damage. Because it can use its knees and feet. The only way I see that there would be encumbered is if they had leg shackles and hand shackles.
 
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Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
FWIW, there MAY be away for Monks to become proficient with shields, and there are variants, PrCls and similar classes that may be already. Once, I knew for sure, but I haven’t played a 3.X monk PC in ages. However, the answer could be found digging around in my Monk database:

 

Sm!le

Explorer
FWIW, there MAY be away for Monks to become proficient with shields, and there are variants, PrCls and similar classes that may be already. Once, I knew for sure, but I haven’t played a 3.X monk PC in ages. However, the answer could be found digging around in my Monk database:

Well it's not a "shield". There is no proficiency required for the ring of force. It's actually a wall of force. It says it is the size of a shield and shield shaped. But it's actually not a shield. It does provide you a shield bonus. Without the weight and encumbrance of the drawbacks of a shield. any character can use it.

It's like saying you have to be proficient with armor in order to use mage armor. Mage Armor provides the armor bonus, but that doesn't mean you have to be proficient with armor.

This item gives you a shield bonus, but it is not a shield and it doesn't have any encumbrance. You could say the same thing about Mage Armor. And providing its armor bonus without adding encumbrance for armor. And no proficiency feats needed.
 

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