D&D 3E/3.5 1e Bard as 3e prestige class?

[Wolf72]

nope, druid all the way baby.

one of the requirements was to be accepted and trained by a druidic circle.

actually the 1e bard could be seen as a precursor to the prestige classes for 3e, more so than any 2e kit.

whether or not they used it as a model is another question.

but yup bards and druids were pretty much hand-in-hand.


In 2e they changed over to a more wizard like incarnation. Storm SilverHand, when converted, became a 22-lvl bard.

 

[ruleslawyer]

[Erica outlined the class from the text; my message not needed.]

 

[DnDChick]

I have my 1e PHB right here. 1e Bards are as close to prestige classes as anything before 3e, and (I think) were actually the inspiration for PrCs:

"A bard must have scores of 15 orbetter in the following abilities: strength, wisdom, dexterity, and charisma. Furthermore, a bard must have at least a 12 score in intelligence and a 10 in constitution."

We can dispense with that, as 3e has dispensed with all ability score requirements.

"A bard must be human or half-elven."

Thats debatable within 3e rules.

"Bards begin play as fighters, and they must remain exclusively fighters untl they have achieved at least the 5th level of experience. Anytime thereafter, and in any even prior to the 8th level, they must change their class to that of thieves. Again, sometime between 5th and 9th level of ability, bards msut leave off theiving and begin clerical studies as druids; but at this time they are actually bards and are under druidical tutelage. Bards must fulfill the requirement in all the above classes before progressing to bards table 1. They must always remain neutral, but can be chaotic, evil, good, or lawful neutral if they wish."

Then there was Bards table 1, showing hit dice, druid spell levels available by class level, etc.

Bards also got a new language ever few levels or so, and a percent chance to to cast charm person or charm monter just by playing music. This, I would assume, is replaced by the bards special abilities associated with the Perform skill. Further powers are described for the 1e bard that duplicate those of the 3e Bard and their Perform skill.

1e Bards also got a legend lore percentage, which I assume would be replaced by Bardic Knowledge in 3e. Bards also had these really neat Gaelic titles, called Colleges, which unfortunately also would be dispensed with in 3e:

1: Probationer
2-4: Fochlucan
5-7: Mac-Fuirmidh
8-10: Doss
11-13: Canaith
14-16: Cli
17-19: Anstruth
20-22: Ollamh
23: Magna Alumnae (sorry...thats Latin, not Gaelic )

It goes on to say that Bards will not associate with a bard of a lesser collage, except for the Magna Alumnae, "who will happily aid (by advice and suggestion) any other bard of any level."

1e Bards were allowed to use leather or magical chainmail only, no shields, clubs, daggers, dards, javelins, slings, scimitars (misspelled scimiters, BTW), spear, staff, and swords (bastard, long, or short). They can use oil as a weapon, and only neutral evil bards will use poison.

There are about 2 1/2 pages detailing the bard, from pages 117-119 in the 1e PHB.

 

[Wolf72]

ah the memories! ...

I forgot how harsh the ability scores were.

23 lvls as bard, 8 as fighter, 9 as thief ... that's 40 lvls.

8d10 fighter, 1d6 thief (dual-class doesn't gain HD benefits until the 2nd class passes the first), +all bardic hd.

that's not bad

 

[sepulchrave]

There is a bard (Ortwin) in my tabletop campaign who was converted from 1e: the player was really p***d at me because I cut his bard levels from 13 to 5 when he converted. But a 1st level bard in 1e advanced in levels at an astronomical rate: he was hanging around with 10th level characters and killing giants, and his xp progression was the same as any other 1st level character...

 

[Ma'varkith]

It was Ftr5 then Thf5, definitely, as a minimum requirement, although either class could be taken as high as 7th. Human or Half-Elf only.

Based on this, prereqs might be something like

BAB +8
Perform (8 Ranks)
Use Magic Device (8 Ranks)
Wilderness Lore (4 Ranks)

The BAB matches a multiclassed Ftr/Rog 5/5.

True, but in 1e, you took the best fighting ability - Adding 5 levels of thief to a level 5 Fighter didn't make him any better at hitting since there were just the hit charts and no "stacking" bonuses. As such, the +8 BAB is a bit high.

As is, it seems that the total character levels required for entry are too steep. What is the benefit to taking this Prestige Class that makes it more appealing than a pure Druid, for example?

 

[Wolf72]

harrumph!

because we can!!!

um ... maybe as a special druid um ...lorekeeper or avenger ...

 

[kolvar]

I did try to convert the 1e bard, once (although I will not post it here). Just some suggestions:
For the Fighter require any fighter type that has not to be lawful.
Other Prerequisits: Perform 8+
BAB +6;
a Craft or Profession at 4 +.
Must be multiclassed.
(and some other stuff, I can not remember at the moment).

For the class:
All the Bardic Music (with 2 uses per level) and Bardic Knowledge, All the Druid Abilities (which is, what the 1e Bard had, but which is debateable), and a spell table up to level 4 spells based on druid spells. (although one could require one level in a spell-casting class as a prerequisite and advance at an even level basis).
On the other hand, you could use the song magic from the Monte-Cook-Bard (which is not like the 1e bard, but gives a realy nice feeling)

Hope that sounds not totally overpowered (I think, the prerequisits were even steeper)