D&D 5E Why is There No Warlord Equivalent in 5E?

Mephista said:

Clearly, the drow-made poison that exists in the fantasy world of D&D does it. We know for a fact it works by entering the bloodstream - one of the supplements flat out said it. And it deals poison damage on the hit. Pure poison damage can be used to knock someone below 0 HP in 6 seconds and force them to make death saving throws. Fantasy poison is FAST.

If you want something else, how about Heat Metal? Its dealing fire damage as long as its skin contact - ie its literally burning your flesh. That's meat damage. It can't really represent you dodging - The fire damage represents you cooking in your own armor or grasping your weapon, dodging isn't possible in these cases. I mean, we have damage types for a reason - fire damage represents literal burning.

Cure Wounds operates on the principle that its fixing wounds that a character took. Its kind of in the name.


How odd. I don't recall saying you by name. And certainly, there was someone earlier who said something to the effect that HP damage wasn't meat on a PC until you're near 0, and I don't really care to go back and look to see who exactly it was. And then adding in some strawmen to attack! Last I checked, no one here was "all meat, all the time!"

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Pseudodragon poison as well. Fail your save by 5 or more and...pleasant dreams?

EzekielRaiden said:

I mean, they never were. That much goes all the way back to Gygax.

Meat points have always been a projection onto a system that wasn't designed to represent them and doesn't usefully map to them. But the feeling of meat points is, as with many things in the D&D design discussion space, a siren song that many are not willing to give up. They would rather have a game that is unpleasant to play but has meat points, because the aesthetic value of meat points is apparently more important than a game that is actually enjoyable to play.

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Agree on all points except one: I think plenty of people enjoy D&D with the perception of hit points as "meat points." They seem to enjoy it more that way, in fact, and it's not hard to understand why.

Seriously, give this a try: the next time one of your players makes an attack roll, ask them to describe what it looks like when their character scores a hit.

Mephista said:

If you want something else, how about Heat Metal? Its dealing fire damage as long as its skin contact - ie its literally burning your flesh. That's meat damage. It can't really represent you dodging - The fire damage represents you cooking in your own armor or grasping your weapon, dodging isn't possible in these cases. I mean, we have damage types for a reason - fire damage represents literal burning.

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And then all the burn flesh sloths off and regenerates when you take a nap right?

Nope. HP is plot armor; a countdown of near misses until from a story standpoint it can't be justified that you're still up. The rest of flavor text.

James Bond's rumpled suit is just as much HP damage as John McClane's sweat and bruises is just as much HP damage as Rasputin's shredded not-corpse.

Ok, time to seriously answer the OP's question. There is, in fact, a 5e Warlord. It's 100% official, printed in an actual WotC book.

Undrave said:

I've played Clerics and Warlocks at low level and using a Spell Slot can have a WAY bigger impact than spending a single Ki point. If you drop Sleep on the right group of enemies, or drop a Bless on your team mates or a Shield of Faith, it has way more of an impact than bloody Patient Defense.

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Of course a sleep spell has a higher impact. Noone denies that. But those are different kind of resources. Clerics only have a few spell slots per day. And channel divinity of course, warlocks use their spell slots often for hex, which can end very fast. Monks at low levels have quite some offense without spending ki at all. Quarterstaff + unarmed strike + high mobility is not bad.

It is just, that as many have identified, the way D&D is played, short rest resources are less impactful than originally intended. And MADness of the monk is a bit of a problem.

But now, compare the monk level 2 to a rogue. Yes, the rogue has cunning action, but if they want to deal as much damage as the monk, they need to spend their bonus action on an off-hand attack. 3d6+3 damage (rogue) vs 1d8+1d4+6 damage (monk). Of course, taking hit probabilities into account, the rogue is slightly ahead (1d6 applied t nthe first hit) , but then you also need to account that this damage is conditional.

Then compare monk hp to rogue hp (same), and AC (both probably 15) and you see that on paper both classes are rather balanced against each other in combat. It just that because the monk needs to spend resources for things the rogue can do at will, that it feels worse. Then top it out with expertise for the rogue out of combat and suddenly it feels that the monk should get a little bit more either out of combat or in it.

Ok, that was longer than intended. So TLDR: monk is in a better shape than theory crafters make us believe, at least if you play closer to the assumed adventuring day.

Maybe Monks should have had a Mobility-like feature at the subclass level to support the "skirmisher" style. Like, well..

Fancy Footwork​

When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn how to land a strike and then slip away without reprisal. During your turn, if you make a melee attack against a creature, that creature can't make opportunity attacks against you for the rest of your turn.

Undrave said:

They also probably didn't want to have too many magical characters either. It's not like I'm complaining or anything.

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Not sure they succeeded in not having too many magical characters. Many folks want even the nonmagical characters to be magical in fact (even if they adamantly don't want them to be magical in name).

Micah Sweet said:

Not sure they succeeded in not having too many magical characters. Many folks want even the nonmagical characters to be magical in fact (even if they adamantly don't want them to be magical in name).

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Well yeah, people love their big flashy fight scenes with physics-defying combat. If the warrior draws a sword and it's on fire, then leaps into the air, time slows down, and he spins and unleashes a wave of flame that murders 10 dudes, that's awesome!

Ask to do that in D&D though, and you'll get some fairly mixed reactions ("well, if you had the right magic items or could use these spells...sure, but Fighters should never be able to just do such things...").

James Gasik said:

Maybe Monks should have had a Mobility-like feature at the subclass level to support the "skirmisher" style. Like, well..

Fancy Footwork​

When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn how to land a strike and then slip away without reprisal. During your turn, if you make a melee attack against a creature, that creature can't make opportunity attacks against you for the rest of your turn.

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i'm not sure i'd restrict it to the subclass level, the fundamental monk design is basically that of a skirmisher anyway, high mobility, lots of attacks, but not the tankiest thing out there, this would be pretty amazing for just upping their general viability as a class.

CreamCloud0 said:

i'm not sure i'd restrict it to the subclass level, the fundamental monk design is basically that of a skirmisher anyway, high mobility, lots of attacks, but not the tankiest thing out there, this would be pretty amazing for just upping their general viability as a class.

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I was about to suggest just giving Monks Mobility, then I remembered the Swashbuckler exists, so maybe that sets a precedent that this should be a subclass feature. That they gave it to a class that also has unlimited use bonus action Disengage feels a bit redundant, but here we are.

And then there's the Scout-

Skirmisher​

Starting at 3rd level, you are difficult to pin down during a fight. You can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.