What Part Does the Role Play in the Role-Playing Game?

[Emberashh]

See post #5 from Emberrash. I think my statement will make more sense.

One would have to explain what they mean by firewalling

 

[Theory of Games]

Western liberalism is the idea of individual rights and things like freedom of speech, religion, rule of law, secularism, private property, freedom of association, etc., etc. It's liberal in the sense of how the word was used centuries ago rather than how it's used today. At least for as long as I've been playing D&D, I'd argue the good guys embrace rather modern western liberal ideals. (Again, as the word liberal was used long, long ago.)

Have you ever used evil or neutral characters? Not very liberal IMO. That and all the human, demihuman and monster cultures the PCs run into can be very anti-liberal. Guess it depends on the setting, right?

 

[Thomas Shey]

One would have to explain what they mean by firewalling

Fair. Separating off your views and preferences from the model you have of your character and not letting the first effect the second. You can argue the first is going to somewhat influence your choice of character, but I've played characters pretty radically different from me in their wants and perspectives.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Have you ever used evil or neutral characters? Not very liberal IMO. That and all the human, demihuman and monster cultures the PCs run into can be very anti-liberal. Guess it depends on the setting, right?

Nothing about either neutral or evil characters makes that true. In fact, usually the very place they've landed in alignment is informed by the liberal (again in the old meaning) view of morality.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Western liberalism is the idea of individual rights and things like freedom of speech, religion, rule of law, secularism, private property, freedom of association, etc., etc. It's liberal in the sense of how the word was used centuries ago rather than how it's used today. At least for as long as I've been playing D&D, I'd argue the good guys embrace rather modern western liberal ideals. (Again, as the word liberal was used long, long ago.)

Well, not according to Gygax. His views on how a lawful good person would behave were quite medieval in unpleasant way.

 

[MGibster]

Have you ever used evil or neutral characters? Not very liberal IMO. That and all the human, demihuman and monster cultures the PCs run into can be very anti-liberal. Guess it depends on the setting, right?

As I wrote earlier, we're talking about liberalism in a classic sense which has its roots in the 17th and 18th centuries with philosophers such as Hobbes, Bacon, Locke, etc., etc. who had a profound impact on how governments in Europe were reshaped. This was at the same time the (pseudo) scientific racism that continue to influence people to this day was formed. Unfortunately such thoughts are not incompatible with liberalism as we define it when talking about Enlightenment philosophy.

If you still disagree that D&D assuems a modern western liberal attitude when it comes to expectations then you're free to do so. I personally think it's one of the reasons why D&D is so successful, but if you disagree it might be a good idea to open another thread about it.

 

[MGibster]

Well, not according to Gygax. His views on how a lawful good person would behave were quite medieval in unpleasant way.

When was the last time Gygax had a direct influence on D&D?

 

[Autumnal]

John Locke played a part in administering colonies with chattel slavery and said his treatment of property rights didn’t apply to savages like hunter-gatherer tribes. Gygax’s views were all too much in accord with classical liberal doctrines and practices.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

When was the last time Gygax had a direct influence on D&D?

Obviously it was very long time ago, but the original ideas still permeate the game. It has been only recently that the player base at large has started to question lawful good paladins committing racially motivated violence.

 

[MGibster]

Obviously it was very long time ago, but the original ideas still permeate the game. It has been only recently that the player base at large has started to question lawful good paladins committing racially motivated violence.

If by recent you mean 30-40 years ago, sure.