D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[Oofta]

That also isn't what the ability says!

Hard to have a good relationship with someone you've never met.

Feature: Ship’s Passage
When you need to, you can secure free passage on a sailing ship for yourself and your adventuring companions. You might sail on the ship you served on, or another ship you have good relations with (perhaps one captained by a former crewmate).

 

[Maxperson]

I cast Detect Unintended Irony

Counterspell!!!

But seriously, if a player asks to know what a ship is from an ocean and country on the other side of the world from where he sailed, with very different ships, and the DM says no, most of the time the player just accepts it and we move on.

Sometimes, though, the player might have a reason for why it should work. The player should be able to give a short explanation for why he thinks it should work. "@Oofta, remember my PC grew up in the city of Shipapalooza on the docks, and we made ships for every country in every sea. That's what we were known for. I would have seen and learned to sail these ships." At which point presumably the DM would be like, "Doh! That's right." and either say yes or at least give the player a roll for it. However, if the reason the player gives is, "Well the ability is written so that it always works." and the DM still says no, the player needs to accept it for the time being and move on. If it's still a big deal to the player, the time to discuss it further* with the DM is after the game is over.

When I player doesn't accept the final decision of the DM and just continues to argue, the player has become a serious disruption to the game and that needs to be dealt with.

* The exception to that in my opinion is if the PC could/would die based on the ruling. In that case I feel that I owe it to the player to discuss it right then in a bit more depth. That doesn't mean I will discuss it for a long period of time, but it will be more than the short discussion that I describe above.

 

[Cadence]

There's a middle ground you're missing here, though.

The DM tries to keep a consistent world. The players want to add things that fit within the world's consistency.

You seem to be assuming that players are just going to be adding anything, like the DM wants a gritty dark ages setting and player insists on magical monster trucks and the DM gives in.

I for one am fine adding things if it "fits within the world's consitency [at a reasonable level]".

Some posters have implied that consistency doesn't matter at all. I haven't paid attention if some have said they would never add the player suggestion.

Maybe a poll with:

"I would never add something new to fit with a player background, even if it is reasonably consistent with the game world"
"I would always add something new to fit with a player background, even if it doesn't seem like there is a very plausible explanation in the game world"
"It depends on the situation, don't pigeonhole me!"

 

[Maxperson]

Without emphasizing that the other players agreed with you against the one you would boot, you made it sound like you too were doing my way or the highway.

I'd like to point out that My Way or the Highway is different from One True Wayism. When @soviet announced that we would all be wrong for thinking things are implausible, he was announcing his way of doing things as the One True Way. My Way or the Highway doesn't say that other tables are doing it wrong, it simply says that it's wrong for me and I'm the boss. You can take it or go find a game that does it differently.

 

[Maxperson]

That also isn't what the ability says!

"When you need to, you can secure free passage on a sailing ship for yourself and your adventuring companions. You might sail on the ship you served on, or another ship you have good relations with (perhaps one captained by a former crewmate). Because you're calling in a favor, you can't be certain of a schedule or route that will meet your every need. Your Dungeon Master will determine how long it takes to get where you need to go. In return for your free passage, you and your companions are expected to assist the crew during the voyage."

How is that not what it says. You call in favors from someone you know who owes you one, or someone who both knows someone you know(and who owes you a favor) and would also honor that favor. It's either someone you know or someone you know of, in literally every port in the multiverse.

 

[Faolyn]

I do not consider that the feature working however.

You are basically saying that the Dark Powers know of the contact (the feature says exists), lure the character into thinking they can get a message to that contact (even though that is a ruse) and then use that to trick the character into something.

How is that at all what the feature says the character can do because of it?

OK, the feature says that your contact who acts as a liaison to a network of other criminals.

The Dark Power provides the contact--or a facsimile of your contact. Or even a brand new contact who has something that identifies them as a friendly--for example, in the contact's guild, everyone has a certain tattoo or uses a certain password. Obviously you can have a new contact with this feature, because otherwise it would be suggesting that your contact is unkillable and always available, or that if your contact is killed or jailed your background feature becomes useless forever. I'm pretty sure that either of those two options wouldn't make much sense as a rule, yes?

Next, the feature says that you know how to get messages to and from your contact. I mentioned a dead drop. There are certainly other options, however, especially if you get magic involved. ("See this wanted poster? Burn it. That means you want to talk to me. I'll know.")

The feature says you know the local messengers and others who can deliver messages. Still possible. Your contact says "I see you're heading to Vallaki; if you want to get in touch with me, give a note to the Milos who hangs around outside the Blue Water Inn. You'll recognize him by the three scars on his right cheek and his big yellow hat. Tell him 'swordfish'. That'll let him know to give the note to me. Be sure to give him a big tip."

Then, should the PCs go to Milos, he might mention someone else who could potentially be another contact or messenger--to pull from earlier editions, the Red Vardo Trading Company. Or if the DM doesn't feel like reading up on Ravenloft history, they could make something else up. Or maybe Milos doesn't say anything, and you have to wait for the contact to point them at more "local messengers, corrupt caravan masters, and seedy sailors." Or you start asking likely people if they know your contact and start establishing connections.

See, the background assumes you learned about the innkeeper and password at some point in your past. Instead, since you're mysteriously in a new land, you're learning about them now.

And no, not just anyone can do this--a criminal contact wouldn't give just anyone this information. Because you're a criminal, the contact knows that you're One Of Them. Additionally, the Dark Powers, always looking for a hook, would make a contact for you.

Now, if instead of going to Ravenloft, you wound up in Greyhawk or Eberron instead, there won't be any mysterious beings who rewrite reality in order to spread horror. Instead, there's one of two possibilities. (1) The criminal PC has to work to establish contacts. (2) The criminal PC commits some crimes and gets noticed by one of the thieves' guilds or the Boromir clan or whatever; I don't know that much about either setting.

And again, not just anyone can do this. The criminal is going to be establishing contacts or committing crimes (not just standard PC unruly unlawfulness, but actual, literal crimes) in a way that will alert other criminals that you are, again, legitimately One Of Them. A fighter with a criminal background is going to have a certain something about them that a rogue with a sage background won't.

 

[Faolyn]

All of those things have happened in games I've run or played.

Ah, so therefore, you're assuming that's going to be the case in every game everywhere?

But it also doesn't make sense that a sailor knows someone in every port in the world.

Which again is not what the feature says. It doesn't even say that you have to know someone on that ship! It says "might." And while you're calling in a favor, the favor could also be volunteering yourself and the rest of your party to serve as free guards while they travel through pirate waters, or to work in the galley or on the oars as free labor.

And honestly, it does make sense that a sailor could know someone in every port. Crew don't stay on a single boat forever. The captain and officers would, sure. The lower-ranked dudes? No, a lot of them will get off at any port (or get thrown off the ship at a port) for any number of reasons.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

That's not a safe assumption. As a player I've sometimes used an ability I doubted would work, but tried juuuuuuuuuuuuuust in case. A hail Mary as it were.

Cross the streams and watch +%#=* blow up!

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Especially in a system that explicitly tells the players that the DM can change the rules and tells the DM over and over and over that the rules aren't in charge, the DM is in charge. 5e(and every other edition of D&D) assumes that the DM can override the rules when he feels it is appropriate.

It goes all the way back to the 70s

 

[mamba]

OK, the feature says that your contact who acts as a liaison to a network of other criminals.

it also says I know the messengers that can get a message to them

The Dark Power provides the contact--or a facsimile of your contact. Or even a brand new contact who has something that identifies them as a friendly--for example, in the contact's guild, everyone has a certain tattoo or uses a certain password.

neither of which is my contact (I agree that the contact functions more like an office than an individual, but no one the DPs conjure up does even that), and knowing the messengers does not even come up at all

Next, the feature says that you know how to get messages to and from your contact. I mentioned a dead drop. There are certainly other options

the feature says you know the messengers, so a dead drop technically does not qualify…
it also says ‘know’, not ‘recognize’ or ‘they introduce themselves to you’…

Finally, also says nothing about receiving a message back, although I assume that usually is possible and required in your case (to convince the criminal to do what the DP wants…)

The icing on the cake however is that the message will not reach the contact and all of this is just a ploy to get the criminal to do something the DPs want

So no, this has nothing to do with the feature working, at all