D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[ezo]

I believe they were referring to the wider pop cultural idea that ‘the ability to use magic is an innate gift a person may specifically have’ than any specific DnDism, where arcane magic it’s more treated as a science anyone can learn.

Maybe, but the only pop reference to that I know of is Harry Potter. I'm sure there are others, of course, such as Merlin (child of an incubus I think), which of course in 5E would be a "sorcerer" with fiendish bloodline.

 

[James Gasik]

So I kept searching, because I had heard of needing magical talent to be a Wizard somewhere over the years of playing D&D, and I finally found it. It's a concept Ed Greenwood espouses, that one requires "The Gift" to become a Wizard, and that a person with great intellect, but without "The Gift" will still never be able to use arcane magic.

AFAIK, while it is something Ed developed for the Forgotten Realms setting, beyond his writings it's almost unheard of before 3e.

 

[ezo]

So I kept searching, because I had heard of needing magical talent to be a Wizard somewhere over the years of playing D&D, and I finally found it. It's a concept Ed Greenwood espouses, that one requires "The Gift" to become a Wizard, and that a person with great intellect, but without "The Gift" will still never be able to use arcane magic.

AFAIK, while it is something Ed developed for the Forgotten Realms setting, beyond his writings it's almost unheard of before 3e.

Do you know in what work he wrote about that?

I don't even remember it being a thing in 3E, although I didn't play 3E for long.

 

[James Gasik]

Do you know in what work he wrote about that?

I don't even remember it being a thing in 3E, although I didn't play 3E for long.

Sadly while I was able to find people talking about it in reddit posts, and even people claiming to have asked him about it, I don't have a source other than comments he's made on Twitter, like this one

Ed Greenwood

 

[James Gasik]

Here's another link talking about The Gift.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Okay I'll say it.

Paladin's Magic Ability score should be based on Oath. Some CHA, Some WIS, Some INT,
(Absorb Elements)
Some STR Some CON NEVER DEX
Oath of Glory Should be STRadin (It's Disney's Hercules the Subclass)
Oath of Redemption should be CONadin

Same with either Warlock OR Sorcerer but not both.

Paladin Magic could be a lot of things. Again, if there was a clear and obvious "willpower" stat, I could see it. I'd like if they were wisdom, to parallel the Cleric, but I can also see Int. I don't think it makes too much sense to make Strength a magical score. I could make it work, but it would be WEIRD to me.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I know this is rather late to ask, but where do you get this idea from? Wizard (i.e. Magic-Users) have never had any inborn magical talent that I am aware of...

It comes from two places.

1) Most of literature. Yes, many mythological wizards also had immense knowledge, but just as many are born with innate magical power that they then hone.

2) For the same reason it is often used in literature, it is a world-building conceit. If everyone can learn magic, magic should be more widespread. Every noble, every scribe, elite soldiers, ect would all have at least dabbled in magic. It is just far too useful not to have. This is part of why Eberron went the route of Broad Magic.

So instead, many people have it so you must be born with enough innate talent to learn magic, therefore limiting the impact by limiting the magical population.

 

[Minigiant]

I think the way D&D does it is that Wizardry isn't just magic science. It's very difficult science.

The "can" is main word. It's about restriction nor aptitude.

"No one" is magically barred from being a wizard. But only the super smart will understand any of it in a decade of education. You need to be a genius or arcane prodigy to understand how to make spellslot in you mind and decipher a spellbook in a language you don't speak with math you never learned.

What makes a Sorcerer is they can do the process without needing to understand the process.

The human wizard NPC is old because it took him 50 years to get it. Elves are the magic race because their society can waste 100 years teaching the dumbest elf burning hands and that elf still have 600 years left on their life.

 

[ezo]

"No one" is magically barred from being a wizard. But only the super smart will understand any of it in a decade of education. You need to be a genius or arcane prodigy to understand how to make spellslot in you mind and decipher a spellbook in a language you don't speak with math you never learned.

This is exactly why I miss the Learn Spell check, etc. from AD&D. A magic-user can have an Intelligence as low as 9, but your ability to learn spells is horrible. It would take you that much longer to learn magic, let alone master it at all.

A teacher of magic isn't likely to teach magic to person with a "low" INT score because they will not be able to "pass on" all their knowledge (at least not easily). A teacher would search for a pupil with potential, as in decent intelligence. If there is a "Gift" for wizards, that is it.

 

[Minigiant]

This is exactly why I miss the Learn Spell check, etc. from AD&D. A magic-user can have an Intelligence as low as 9, but your ability to learn spells is horrible. It would take you that much longer to learn magic, let alone master it at all.

A teacher of magic isn't likely to teach magic to person with a "low" INT score because they will not be able to "pass on" all their knowledge (at least not easily). A teacher would search for a pupil with potential, as in decent intelligence. If there is a "Gift" for wizards, that is it.

The Gift is either having the Intelligence to understand magic at a decent speed or the magical sorcerer origin to "skip steps".

Sorcerer's don't need to understand Adbadido's Formula or how to find Miki-Hagi's Number. The Formula and Number is written in their blood. You just need to find the spells that match their number or how to brute force it.