D&D 1E Seriously contemplating an attempt at a retro AD&D

[deganawida]

Happy Friday!

First, I have never played AD&D 1e, nor played in Greyhawk, aside from beating the ToEE game 20 years ago (oof, I’m getting old).

Second, while I enjoy a wide variety of play styles and games, my preferences tend to be towards games with less crunch than the WotC editions of D&D have had, at least when it comes to traditional fantasy or swords and sorcery tales.

Third, I am something of an originalist when it comes to creative endeavors, or, if you prefer, I have the Primordial nature from the old World of Darkness. I like taking old things, finding what’s neat about them, and the sharing them with other as I make something new.

I have long flirted with the idea of buying, and then learning, AD&D 1.0/1.5, and then running some of the classic modules in Greyhawk for my group (who also have never played either).

1.0 and Greyhawk seem to be what AD&D was designed for; all the classes and races which have now practically become tropes feeding upon themselves have a natural place in Greyhawk. The feel is less high or heroic fantasy, and more swords and sorcery, which I generally prefer over other types.

Given the above, I am going to make the jump into it, learn it, run modules, and aim for a campaign that lasts the remainder of my natural life (hey, I’m aiming high).

For this, what books and editions of them are the best? What do I need to know when reading these? Is it true that knowledge of how to play is passed on more as an oral tradition than through the books (a concept with which I’m familiar, given my Orthodox background)?

Any help from those who have played, are still playing, and/or loved it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ilgatto]

Well, I guess there's probably as many ways to learn the game as there are people playing it, but I'd say all you're initially gonna need to learn to play are the 1E PHB, DMG, and MM(1).

However, IMHO, if there's one thing that should be said about 1E, it would be that the rule books are..., um..., encyclopedic in nature rather than the "just start reading on page 1 and you'll automatically find out how the game works" of post-2E editions - which was a good thing in 3E.

Having said that, the next problem may be that, although encyclopedic in nature, there's a sequence to things in these rule books not everybody will see as clearly as EGG obviously did - and which certainly doesn't compare to how things are organized in more modern rulebooks. For example, to this day, I can never find the table that lists what weapons are allowed which character class in haste. Fortunately, I do consider the index in the DMG to be a good one, provided you know what you're looking for.

This can make it hard to learn the game from just reading the rule books, which is probably why the "word of mouth" method is often spoken of. Indeed, the majority of the people I know who started playing the game way back when did learn how the game worked by just rolling up characters and then listening to one of the four people in my neck of the woods who had a knack for understanding things wargame and had actually read both the PHB and the DMG. Mistakes were made - and are still made up until this day - but, hey, we had fun and never stopped.

Then, there's things you should probably just skip, at least initially. Among these would be the rules for surprise and missile weapons, the rules for unarmed combat, psionics, the rules for calculating how much XP to hand out for what monsters, morale, the weapon vs armor tables, and then some.
If rules seem convoluted or unclear (and they will), just ignore them or try and get the gist of them and use simplified versions of them.

Of course, since you mention that you have a lot of experience with many RPGs, you may find that all of the above doesn't apply at all, in which case I apologize for bringing them up.

To continue, I think it would be fair to say that people who started playing the game back in the day started their adventurous careers by finding a dungeon and then going through it room by room until all of them were dead.
That's not being flippant, it's just what 1E can be and usually is - lethal. And that's another thing you should probably accept as law. There's no such thing as game balance, nothing is tailor-made to the extent that everybody can happily express themselves until they get to level 20 in a couple of weeks. 1E is lethal.

Another thing to consider is that 1E was probably the edition that sought to challenge the players as well as their PCs. Some modules (C1, C2 come to mind) are still witness to this.

But I digress.

My advice would be that a first step could be to gather your players and just start using the PHB to make some PCs together. Roll some dice, read the sections in the PHB and the DMG that apply, get a feel for the book and the..., um..., prose.

Then, if you're looking for Swords & Sorcery rather than a Game of Heroic Adventure, my next advice would be that you should probably start with an old-school "hack-and-slash" dungeon to get a feel of how to run the game without the distractions a plot and too many NPCs can provide. Accept that mistakes will be made - and will be made for as long as you play 1E.

A good base of operations for such a dungeon may be T1, The Village of Hommlet (although this is a prequel to ToEE), or the village of Restenford in L1, The Secret of Bone Hill, which has ample room for plots and more intricate sequels.

Next could be something like U1, The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, although rumor has it that this can end up with less PCs surviving than you'd like - but, hey, welcome to the game!

Once your PCs have got some flesh on their bones, which usually doesn't really happen until after, say, level 4, you could try the A-series.

Once this is done, there's the famous G, D, and Q series, which should keep you busy for quite some time.

For this, since you mentioned Greyhawk and most of the above is in that world, you may want to try out the next rule book, which would be Greyhawk Adventures (1981), or possibly the earlier publications regarding the World of Greyhawk.

Although this is probably a matter of taste, I would suggest you use the original versions of all of the above and not the later (often 2E) versions, which have been incorporated in a mega-campaign that sort of combines everything that was published module-wise for early 1E, which I consider silly, IMHO and YMMV and all that.

Of course, the real Swords & Sorcery, with all of its pros and cons, lies hidden in the various Judges Guild publications, such as The First Fantasy Campaign by Dave Arneson. However, the majority of these can be..., um..., hard to understand at the best of times.


Welcome to the wonderful world of pulp fantasy and happy gaming.

 

[Voadam]

I played I believe one game of 1e AD&D at a friend's then got the Moldvay Basic set and devoured that all-in-one 64 page rulebook. It is how I learned D&D. After playing a bunch of AD&D and B/X D&D and getting and reading a good bunch of the 1e PH, MM, and DMG and UA, I started DMing 1e using the basic module B1 In Search of the Unknown.

Moldvay Basic is a great way to learn OSR style D&D. 1e is convoluted and esoteric, this is both a complication and hindrance to use and a delight of options and part of the charm. Reading 1e you will get into a weird eldritch pulp fantasy state of mind where dweomercraft seems like a natural term in English.

If you want to functionally learn 1e rules, OSRIC the retroclone is probably the way to go.

If you want the full on experience of the 80s, go with the core 1e books and try to figure it out from reading and the experiences of those you game with, skip some of the really intricate parts, end up doing a lot your own way, think your way is the official one, find out later that part of your way is contradicted by hidden passages of text in your books and the experiences of lots of others, and hopefully have a blast doing it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I started with 1E but would not recommend that as a place to jump into an old school game. If you really want to do 1E, pick up OSRIC, which presents the rules more clearly, without any real changes.

I admire that you're approaching through an Orthodox lens -- it's a pretty good way to grapple with Gygax's text, IMO -- but having OSRIC on hand as a study guide will probably be invaluable. I believe you can get a text-only version for free.

The T1 moathouse would be my suggestion for a 1E starter adventure. It stands up, even today.

I would agree with going with Moldvay BD&D (or, shhhh, just use OSE, which is a better organized version of the same, so long as you don't add on the Advanced Fantasy optional modules, which convert 1E content).

Keep on the Borderlands, played straight, is a pretty good intro, especially since you'll probably need to make new characters and hire NPC hirelings after your first visit to the Caves of Chaos.

I think the Lost City is probably more fun for modern players, though.

And this is heresy, I know, but I think that the old school play actually works better with OSR/NSR rulesets than the actual TSR D&D rules, all of which have enough fiddly bits that not even Gygax consistently used and you will probably find yourself frustrated with and discarding after playing with them longer than you enjoy. The OSR and NSR fast forward you past that stage to the good stuff.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I started in this hobby with AD&D back in 1977. One thing I hated was the counterintuitive way AC worked. FWIW, I wasn’t a fan of 2Ed’s THAC0, either.

So if I were doing a retro clone of that game, I’d convert it to an ascending AC paradigm.

Just my 2¢.

 

[DammitVictor]

You need the three core rulebooks and I would highly recommend Unearthed Arcana; don't use everything, and I can't even really recommend specifically anything, but you should at least read the book and make a conscious decision about each component part.

Likewise, I have always considered Oriental Adventures a core rulebook that should be included with the Big Three, if for no other reason than the extra classes and martial arts rules for your monks and assassins. (If there aren't monks and assassins, you aren't playing AD&D.)

 

[Eyes of Nine]

I recommend finding the DMs Screen if you can

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Another thought:

If your game includes life-draining undead, you might want to fiddle with that as well. While it was VERY effective at instilling fear & loathing, the level draining system could dramatically slow play down. Players had to essentially “deconstruct” their PCs on the fly to figure out what afflicted PCs could still do.

In 3.X, I contemplated replacing level draining with using the game’s fatigue mechanics. It worked conceptually and still had meaningful, scary effects for all classes. And there fewer character changes involved, so it was less likely to significantly slow gameplay.

Alas, 4Ed was released before I had a chance to playtest it.

 

[Lanefan]

Another thought:

If your game includes life-draining undead, you might want to fiddle with that as well. While it was VERY effective at instilling fear & loathing, the level draining system could dramatically slow play down. Players had to essentially “deconstruct” their PCs on the fly to figure out what afflicted PCs could still do.

Simple fix for that is to have players record their h.p. etc. at each level along with what spell slots were gained, such that when a level is lost they immediately know what to drop back to.

 

[Lanefan]

Well, I guess there's probably as many ways to learn the game as there are people playing it, but I'd say all you're initially gonna need to learn to play are the 1E PHB, DMG, and MM(1).

Agreed. Next up would be the other two monster books (Fiend Folio and MMII). After that, you've probably got everything you'll ever need. Avoid Unearthed Arcana at all costs until you become much more familiar with the system; a lot of stuff in there is outright broken, and you'll need to know what to prune and what to keep.

Then, there's things you should probably just skip, at least initially. Among these would be the rules for surprise and missile weapons, the rules for unarmed combat, psionics, the rules for calculating how much XP to hand out for what monsters, morale, the weapon vs armor tables, and then some.

Mostly agree; the bolded, however, are both essential. Morale is really simple, and the MMI monsters' xp are all listed in Appendix E of the DMG (they're right in the monster write-ups in FF and MMII). If you use a homebrew monster, however, you'll need that xp table; it's pretty easy to use.

One other rule to largely ignore if you can is Gygax's combat initiative system. Replace it with something of your own; even if you think yours is worse, trust me: it isn't.

My advice would be that a first step could be to gather your players and just start using the PHB to make some PCs together.

Indeed; and the PH isn't too bad at stepping you through the roll-up process.

A good base of operations for such a dungeon may be T1, The Village of Hommlet (although this is a prequel to ToEE), or the village of Restenford in L1, The Secret of Bone Hill, which has ample room for plots and more intricate sequels.

Those are both good home bases but are also both very nasty adventures to chuck at raw 1st-level types. Bone Hill even says it's for 2nd-4th level characters.

B2 Keep on the Borderlands is the classic "first adventure" (and it too comes with a home base, that being the keep). N1 Cult of the Reptile God is also a good starter adventure, as is...

Next could be something like U1, The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, although rumor has it that this can end up with less PCs surviving than you'd like - but, hey, welcome to the game!

... U1 Secret of Saltmarsh. I'd put its overall lethality level somewhat lower than either Bone Hill or Hommlet...though it does have its moments.

A good sequence IMO would be U1, U2, Bone Hill, A-series (well, A1-A2 anyway), WG4 Temple of Tharizdun, G-series. I'm not a big fan of the D-Q series that come after the G-series; having run them, I was rather unimpressed.