RPG Writing and Design Needs a Paradigm Shift

[Andvari]

Pathfinder 2e
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It's improved in the remastered version of the rules, as they got rid of spell components. Instead it has the Manipulate trait.

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Old:

 

[pemerton]

Rulings, once made, become rules.

But your rulings don't become my rules.

Well, living victims with some hit points such as adventurers. Ordinary Joes burn like chickens.

As I noted, bears and great cats will frequently survive a fireball that melts metals. As @AbdulAlhazred noted, that makes no sense.

 

[pemerton]

It's improved in the remastered version of the rules, as they got rid of spell components. Instead it has the Manipulate trait.

New:

Old:

Just a point of curiosity: it seems like the caster conjures an explosion at the designated point, rather than shooting or hurling a missile as in other versions of the spell.

 

[kenada]

It's improved in the remastered version of the rules, as they got rid of spell components. Instead it has the Manipulate trait.

New:

Old:

Thanks for posting the updated version. It’s a little disappointing that the remastered rules still aren’t available on Archive of Nethys. I suppose I could buy the PDFs like I did 4e to get screenshots.

 

[kenada]

Just a point of curiosity: it seems like the caster conjures an explosion at the designated point, rather than shooting or hurling a missile as in other versions of the spell.

That seems to be the logical consequence of thinking of fireball as magically creating an explosion, but it may have been lost due to brevity. The PF1 version also leads with your generating a “searing explosion of flame” and only mentions the bead that’s projected in the second paragraph.

Hmm. I wonder if fireball would be more interesting as a conjuration spell instead of an evocation spell. It would be sort of like B/X magic missile, which gives the missiles a duration. (My homebrew system will likely embrace that version of magic missile should I include that spell.) You could create a bead and share it with others or perhaps use it creatively. Put the bead under an object to fling it somewhere or use it as a magical mine.

Update: Magic missile from B/X. Note the duration (1 turn = 10 minutes).

 

[pemerton]

@kenada

I thought there was a view that the 1 turn duration is a typo/oversight, rather than a deliberate piece of design?

 

[Bedrockgames]

I disagree with this, in that IMO the spell write-up should cover as many corner cases as it can that relate specifically to that spell.

For example, that Fireball (in the early editions) expands to fill the volume of a 40-foot sphere regardless of terrain constraints - and is unique in doing so - causes all kinds of corner-case situations that don't apply to any other spell and thus should be dealt with right there in the Fireball write-up.

For me I much prefer how open things were in stuff like the white box where they don't cover every corner case. I want some flavor but much prefer a sense of spirit of the spell that the GM can interpret and in an open way, than everything hammered out. Don't get me wrong, I like stuff like AD&D and 3E just fine and can roll with the spells covering corner cases, but I just enjoy the not covering all the corner cases approach so much more based more on rulings

 

[Bedrockgames]

Rulings, once made, become rules.

I don't think this is the case. The point of rulings is to address specific situations the rules either don't cover, can't possibly cover, or don't cover as well and so the GM needs to throw in a more nuanced resolution. Some people make rulings their house rules. Some people don't. If you are using rulings over rules, I think it often comes from a place of wanting to preserve the lightness of the system. For me, making every ruling into an actual rule (house rule or official) just bloats the game. Sometimes rulings will be so good, we keep using it and it sticks, but it isn't concrete or a must.

 

[kenada]

@kenada

I thought there was a view that the 1 turn duration is a typo/oversight, rather than a deliberate piece of design?

Possibly, but I think the idea of having magic missile last for a duration could be an interesting variant.

 

[Russ1728]

I’ve thought about this issue a lot as well. My group plays a lot of Pathfinder and it would be nice to simply have a compact manual of tables in a printed book. We find that we are constantly using The Archives of Nethys to lookup rules rather than the printed books because of the speed of finding the answer we are looking for.