AD&D 2E and The Immortal's Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Jeez, if my Sorlockadin build in 5e got 12 attacks a round, they could deal enough damage to kill a Elder One 10 times over, assuming full crits and a restrained/prone god.

How many attacks do they have now and what damage are they doing?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Currently I use 3.5 Ascension mostly as a guideline for divine ability slots, integrated class features, and portfolios. I plan to stick with d20's for Hit Dice and Ability score maxes of 50 since there's precedence with ability bonuses being doubled for a couple of deities. Plus I never liked the cap of 25, especially for giants, dragons, gods, kaiju, etc.. It never made sense to me.

Glad Ascension was useful.

The only thing I've had issues with is natural armor bonuses. Especially for virtual size categories. I get that 2E is basically a primitive 3.0, but the way they work natural armor is arbitrary seeming. Monsters that should have skin like armor plating frequently have weak natural armor. While others have natural armor that's too good.

I have considered scaling back virtual size bonuses to armor class or just removing size bonuses and virtual size bonuses entirely since 2E makes no use of size bonuses, except when dealing damage. ...or just making armor and natural armor not stack at all. With the better bonus prevailing. I'm experimenting thus far, but I'm leaning towards not letting armor and natural armor stack and not using size or virtual size bonuses.

I thought Natural Armour and Armour did stack...its been a while.

 

[ArcanistDragonborn]

How many attacks do they have now and what damage are they doing?

Null, my Sorlockadin is currently 17th level, and they can make 4 attacks a round at base when hasted and using booming blade. Each of their attacks do 2d6+2d10+4d6 fire+12+16d8 smite times 2 because of crits, and max damage because of coup de grace against a prone opponent held w/ hold monster, and that times 12 comes out to roughly 4,704 points of damage, and that's further doubled if the elder one in question counts as evil-aligned, being nearly 10,000 points of damage. Admittedly, that damage is entirely dependent on the Elder One in question failing a WIS save to get hit by Hold Monster. They can also decide to make a ranged eldritch spear attack, firing off 48 eldritch blasts instead, doing a total of 48d10+96d8 points of necrotic damage from up to 600 feet away w/ spell sniper. if they get two free rounds of attack against the poor, poor elder one, assuming that the elder one in question fails all of its saves, that elder one will be taking somewhere around 12 thousand points of radiant/necrotic damage. This build is not entirely rules-legal on it's own though, I made a deal w/ my DM that I would trade away my high-end shadow sorcerer abilities in favor of getting Eldritch Blast + the 2nd level invocations.

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

Glad Ascension was useful.



I thought Natural Armour and Armour did stack...its been a while.

Ascension has been very useful.

In regards to Armor...Kinda...In 2E...

"Creatures with Natural Armor Classes
Some creatures possess a natural Armor Class already superior to some of the armor types (for example, the horse is AC 7). However, these creatures can still benefit from wearing armor of a quality worse than their natural Armor Class. If the AC of armor is equal to or worse than the AC of the creature, the AC of the creature improves by 1.
For example, a horse has a natural AC of 7. The AC of leather armor is 8, worse than the horse's natural AC. However, if a horse is fitted with leather barding, its AC drops to 6 since it gains the benefit of the additional protection." - PH, pg. 102

Essentially, if the armor is better, you use the Armor. If it's not, see previous. I had to look it up after you mentioned it. It actually solves my Armor Class issues perfectly.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Null, my Sorlockadin is currently 17th level, and they can make 4 attacks a round at base when hasted and using booming blade. Each of their attacks do 2d6+2d10+4d6 fire+12+16d8 smite times 2 because of crits, and max damage because of coup de grace against a prone opponent held w/ hold monster, and that times 12 comes out to roughly 4,704 points of damage, and that's further doubled if the elder one in question counts as evil-aligned, being nearly 10,000 points of damage. Admittedly, that damage is entirely dependent on the Elder One in question failing a WIS save to get hit by Hold Monster.

Interested to see how that breaks damage down exactly as well as your characters levels broken down by class.

They can also decide to make a ranged eldritch spear attack, firing off 48 eldritch blasts instead, doing a total of 48d10+96d8 points of necrotic damage from up to 600 feet away w/ spell sniper. if they get two free rounds of attack against the poor, poor elder one, assuming that the elder one in question fails all of its saves, that elder one will be taking somewhere around 12 thousand points of radiant/necrotic damage. This build is not entirely rules-legal on it's own though, I made a deal w/ my DM that I would trade away my high-end shadow sorcerer abilities in favor of getting Eldritch Blast + the 2nd level invocations.

How exactly are you doing 48 eldritch blasts in one round...because the problem you are going to run into is that if your Level 17 Sorlockadin can shoot 48 such blasts, the 'poor' Elder One is going to be shooting 480.

 

[ArcanistDragonborn]

The math that I'm doing here is assuming that my character is getting 12 attacks per round, like Thrin did. Null, with how Eldritch Blasts work, attacks with 4 eldritch blasts each attack action, and since Null gets 12 attacks, that's 12x4. Null, in all actuality, would only get 16 eldritch blasts a turn without Thrin's attack speed. Even then, the math that I'm doing is assuming that the Elder One fails their save and has no immunity to Hold Monster and also has no other major resistances to my Sorlockadin. In an actual fight, Null would get utterly curbstomped by any epic/immortal creature due to, well, everything else Elder Ones or even weaker immortals get. I was just trying to say that in a complete vacuum, Null the Sorlockadin could probably drop an unresisting, defenseless Elder One to 0 HP in 2 turns, rather than being able to actually fight any fully divine+ entity on equal terms. Null's actual max damage output in any realistic scenario is closer to 400 to 450 points of damage, tops. Null is a Vengeance Paladin 6, Sorceror 13, Hexblade Warlock 2. I also messed up the divine smite calculations as well, so null would only be dealing 14d8 extra points of radiant smite damage per attack. They do effectively have infinite Sorceror spell slots due to being able to convert Pact points to Spell Points, but that is not intended in game rules, and they don't have that in their actual campaign stats.

 

[Upper_Krust]

The math that I'm doing here is assuming that my character is getting 12 attacks per round, like Thrin did.

Thrin was a 117th-level Lesser God of War in 1E where the haste spell doubled attacks.

Null, with how Eldritch Blasts work, attacks with 4 eldritch blasts each attack action, and since Null gets 12 attacks, that's 12x4. Null, in all actuality, would only get 16 eldritch blasts a turn without Thrin's attack speed. Even then, the math that I'm doing is assuming that the Elder One fails their save and has no immunity to Hold Monster and also has no other major resistances to my Sorlockadin.

I took a look at the Sorlockadin build, but your numbers still seemed confusing.

In an actual fight, Null would get utterly curbstomped by any epic/immortal creature due to, well, everything else Elder Ones or even weaker immortals get. I was just trying to say that in a complete vacuum, Null the Sorlockadin could probably drop an unresisting, defenseless Elder One to 0 HP in 2 turns, rather than being able to actually fight any fully divine+ entity on equal terms. Null's actual max damage output in any realistic scenario is closer to 400 to 450 points of damage, tops. Null is a Vengeance Paladin 6, Sorceror 13, Hexblade Warlock 2.

So Null is Level 21...? I thought you said Level 17 earlier.

I also messed up the divine smite calculations as well, so null would only be dealing 14d8 extra points of radiant smite damage per attack.

I don't even know how you are doing that amount of smite. The standard paladin max. is 5d8 (6d8 on undead or fiends) and your sorcerer only has Level 7 slots for 7d8/8d8.

Attack 1: 2d6 Greatsword + 2d6 Flametongue + 7d8/8d8 smite (Level 7 slot) + bonuses
Attack 2: 2d6 Greatsword + 2d6 Flametongue + 6d8/7d8 smite (Level 6 slot) + bonuses
Attack 3 (Booming Blade): 2d6 Greatsword + 2d6 Flametongue + 1d8 Thunder (booming blade, if the enemy moves) + 5d8/6d8 smite (Level 5 slot) + bonuses
Attack 4 (Haste) 2d6 Greatsword + 2d6 Flametongue + 1d8 Thunder (booming blade, if the enemy moves) + 5d8/6d8 smite (Level 5 slot) + bonuses.

I mean its a solid Nova round. But after that you drop to Level 4 slots or lower.

They do effectively have infinite Sorceror spell slots due to being able to convert Pact points to Spell Points, but that is not intended in game rules, and they don't have that in their actual campaign stats.

So its a bit of a bending of the rules to always have Level 7 spell slots...? Still all a tiny bit confusing.

 

[ArcanistDragonborn]

As previously stated, Null is not rules legal in the slightest, and I should have made that more clear. Furthermore, I probably shouldn't have hijacked this thread anyway with my bragging about my dubiously-rules legal and very heavily house-ruled build, so I'll get rid of all my posts on this thread once I figure out how. I also have been really sleep-deprived these last few days, so I've been getting a lot of the math wrong and been a lot less accurate/normal these last few days. Apologies to both U_K and Flutterby for hijacking this thread.

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

As previously stated, Null is not rules legal in the slightest, and I should have made that more clear. Furthermore, I probably shouldn't have hijacked this thread anyway with my bragging about my dubiously-rules legal and very heavily house-ruled build, so I'll get rid of all my posts on this thread once I figure out how. I also have been really sleep-deprived these last few days, so I've been getting a lot of the math wrong and been a lot less accurate/normal these last few days. Apologies to both U_K and Flutterby for hijacking this thread.

I don't mind. I welcome discussion of all editions.

 

[Upper_Krust]

As previously stated, Null is not rules legal in the slightest, and I should have made that more clear.

Yes I was wondering why I couldn't work out where I was going wrong...thought it was just old age.

Furthermore, I probably shouldn't have hijacked this thread anyway with my bragging about my dubiously-rules legal and very heavily house-ruled build, so I'll get rid of all my posts on this thread once I figure out how. I also have been really sleep-deprived these last few days, so I've been getting a lot of the math wrong and been a lot less accurate/normal these last few days.

Don't worry about that, everyone has an off day now and then.

Apologies to both U_K and Flutterby for hijacking this thread.

No harm done buddy, just all a bit of fun.