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Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder To Get New Core Rulebooks Soon

New books are a reorganization and consolidation rather than a new edition

PlayerCore_CoverMock_1200.png

It's not just D&D that's getting a 'revised' set of core books--Pathfinder is also getting 'remastered' books! The core rulebooks are being replaced by a new set of books, with new names, but like D&D it is being reiterated that this is not a new edition--"With the exception of a few minor variations in terminology and a slightly different mix of monsters, spells, and magic items, the rules remain largely unchanged."

The existing Pathfinder Core Rulebook, Gamemastery Guide, Bestiary, and Advanced Player’s Guide are being replaced with Pathfinder Player Core, Pathfinder GM Core, Pathfinder Monster Core, and Pathfinder Player Core 2.

These books appear to focus on re-organization and consolidation of existing material rather than substantive changes. They also represent Paizo's move away from the Open Gaming License and towards the new Open RPG Creative (ORC) license. Paizo says "This transition will result in a few minor modifications to the Pathfinder Second Edition system, notably the removal of alignment and a small number of nostalgic creatures, spells, and magic items exclusive to the OGL. These elements remain a part of the corpus of Pathfinder Second Edition rules for those who still want them, and are fully compatible with the new remastered rules, but will not appear in future Pathfinder releases."

 

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Retreater

Legend
Did you think that PF1e's "Unchained" book was an edition change?
They didn't stop printing PF1 when Unchained was released. They didn't say "going forward, you can only use this new Unchained monk in PFS."
Paizo can try to sugar coat it, but this is definitely a 2.5.
Once you see all the changes they've announced in one day, I think you'll agree.
 

Retreater

Legend

Pathfinder 2e: Remaster Announcements​

OGL-Based Changes​

  • “Spell level” terminology being changed to “Spell rank”
  • Ability scores going away; they’re just going to become Ability Modifiers now.
    • +1, +2, +3
  • Alignments are now going to be Edicts and Anathema.
    • Aligned damage now becomes Holy/Unholy.
  • OGL Spells are being renamed/replaced.
  • Nephilim replacing Tiefling/Aasimar and other Planar descendants.

Revisions​

  • Witch (Class)
  • Champion (Class)
  • Oracle (Class)
  • Focus Points (System)
  • CONFIRMED ROGUE MARTIAL WEAPONS, WIZARD GETS SIMPLE WEAPONS (Mechanics)

4pm Stream​

Twitch Stream (4pm EST)

Notes will be cleaned up post stream

Player Core​

November 2023
  • Character creation, game rules, conditions
  • Bulk of ancestries
  • 8 classes (*listed here Pathfinder Player Core)
    • Bard
    • Cleric
    • Druid
    • Fighter
    • Ranger
    • Rogue
    • Witch
    • Wizard
  • Core rulebook -> Player Core 1
  • QoL / Rewording spells, also new spells
  • Witch revisions
    • Witch interactions with patron
    • Emphasizing familiars
    • Hex mechanic changes
  • Nephilim
    • Taking the place of planar scions, versatile heritages
    • Demon, angel ancestry falls under here now
  • Alignment Edicts and Anathema
    • Edicts and Anathema will be used in its place as part of character creation
    • Optional element to characters
    • Holy/Unholy damage

GM Core​

November 2023
  • Magic items are going into GM Core from Player sourcebooks
    • New items
    • Category changes
  • Crafting changes
  • Advice from Game Mastery guide going into GM Core
  • Building adventures/campaigns
  • Subsystems from GMG, vehicles, chases, victory points
  • Free archetype rules
  • Variant rules are going in here too
  • Treasure section/chapter
    • Treasure vault system as base
  • Age of Lost Omens core rulebook info going into GM Core as a setting chapter
  • Talisman changes
    • Expanded on panel at PaizoCon

Monster Core​

March 2024
  • Bestiary 1 content, with some Bestiary 2 and 3
  • OGL monsters and problematic™ monsters being removed
  • Djinni/Genies
  • Dragons yay
    • Magical traditions being used as a base
      • Arcane
      • Divine
      • Primal
      • Occult
    • Confirmed names of dragons listed on Pathfinder Monster Core product page
    • Omen Dragon
  • Possibly a Monster Core 2

Player Core 2​

July 2024
  • Archetypes in Advanced Player’s Guide
  • Ancestries from other books going into PC2
    • Hobgoblin
    • Lizardfolk
    • Catfolk
    • Gnoll renamed to Kholo
    • Kobold
    • Ratfolk
    • Tengu
  • Versatile Heritages
    • Dhampir
    • Duskwalker
    • New unannounced heritage
  • Class Revisions
    • Alchemist (Full rework)
    • Champion (Changed from alignment)
      • Some thematic restrictions for champions
  • Alchemical Items

Q&A Content​

Q: How are Gods changing with alignment?

A: Gods that care heavily about “alignment” will remain strict about it, sounds like case by case thing

Q: Troop rules in Monster Core?
A: No. New troops in Rage of Elements though.

Q: Will there be revisions to the Beginner Box?
A: Revisions are minimal; no new BB edition yet. Revised intro product at some point.

Q: Conversion guide?
A: Term primer, resources for translating should be out there.

Example: Feat for alignment damage would get a nuanced change contained within whether or not it’s a feasible quick change

Q: Partnered content?
A: Remaster won’t affect content, content creators will be worked with to get the changes through.

Q: What’s happening with Ability Scores?
A: Ability scores going away; they’re just going to become Ability Modifiers now.

Q: Favorite Change?

A:
L: Focus points; they’re gonna be easier to use. Refocusing will be easier.
J: Dragons. Spoiled Omen Dragons hee ho.

Q: Alignment changing due to OGL?
A: Kinda sorta. It’s a reductive/legacy tool. Batman’s alignment remains unconfirmed by devs.


Q: What should game-masters think about the Remaster? What to look forward to?
A: Look for things you want to use in the Remaster; otherwise, content is unchanged as played. Exceptions are anything alignment-themed - GM should keep an eye out for systems affected by alignment changes.

5pm Stream Notes​

Remaster Project Stream (5pm EST)
  • Alignments will have absolutely no bearing on the established lore/story of Outsiders such as devils & angels.
    • They’ll go into other aspects, likely from Edicts & Anathemas.
  • Monster Core will have information for how Outsiders interact outside of Alignments.
Q: Is this Pathfinder 2.5?
A: Not enough changes for a 2.5 or a version change. It’s errata plus.

Q: Clarification for water pressure damage?
A: lmao no. It might go in somewhere for QoL changes.

Q: Will there be new 1st and 2nd level items?
A: Yes. Starting magic items, rings of protection will be in the errata. Alchemical items will be going to Player Core 2 to package them in with Alchemist.

Q: What happens to the humble bundle PDFs and PDF purchases?
A: PDFs won’t be updated quite yet. The rules/changes published will be available online for free.

Q: Is magic missile gone?
A: Erik - not sure. They changed magic missile’s mechanics. The name may change. (Force missile)

Q: Will Rogues get access to martial weapons?
A: Erik doesn’t know - team will consider it.

Q: What classes are changing?
A: Already outlined before; Champion, Oracle, Alchemist, Witch.

Q: Did these books screw up the production schedule?
A: YES apparently. 2024 was set in stone beforehand, it’s a little goofy now. Some things are going to be pushed forward.

Q: Starfinder and OGL?
A: A little later on in the future; not in the immediate future.

Q: Witch meeting patron mechanics?
A: Design team is listening; maybe

Q: Bard gets +5 early?
A: Nope at a glance

Q: Will the books be available as PDFs under the rulebooks subscription?
A: To be discussed; topic of discussion.

Q: Battlezoo changes?
A: Should work, there’s no mechanical changes that would affect the content in Battlezoo.

Q: How’s Dead God’s Hand going, Erik?
A: Remaster stuff did get in the way; Erik will finish it when he finishes it. Jinxes self with car accident.

Q: Errata for Divine stat blocks?
A: Not really; the Edicts and Anathema should cover everything in practice.

Q: Shoony versatile heritage/ core Shoony
A:No…?

Q: Apsu? Dragon changes?
A: Chromatic/metallic dragons are a little problematic with OGL, so they’re definitely going to be changed.These changes are a good opportunity to try out new Dragon things now that the design space is there.

Q: Deep dive expansion into pantheon lore?
A: Yes.

Q: Hag changes?
A: Work was being done for new hag ideas/designs? Extensive rework.

Q: New Pathfinder fiction?
A: No announcements from Erik; interest for returning to PF Tales

Basically all the questions from here are mechanics/design based and can’t be answered

Q: Drow equivalent?
A: Cannot say, but there’s a lot.

Q: Organized play changes?
A: Unsure.

Q: Witch mechanics?
A: Can’t answer; designers would be better for asking.

Q: What caused the most debate internally?
A: Alignments (duh).

Q: BB Box changes? (Again)
A: Not yet. The changes won’t be affecting most early level experiences. Some other intro content might come up.

Q: Disarm action changes?
A: Probably not.

Q: Starstone related content? (When can I become a god)
A: Dead God’s Hand

Erik Mona:
  • CONFIRMED ROGUE MARTIAL WEAPONS
  • WIZARD GETS SIMPLE WEAPONS
500 likes milestone

Rage of the Elements will have new errata rules.

There will be a download outlining all of the changes.

Methods being renamed


Pre-Stream Notes​


Source: Blog Post
  • Clarification: this is a REMASTER, does not make any rulebooks obsolete.
  • Alignment system removed (not reworked).
  • Spells with OGL-sourced names (such as magic missile) renamed.

Source: Pathfinder Player Core
  • Adding Leshys and Orcs to core ancestries.
  • New rules for versatile heritage.
  • Class revision for Witch.
  • Aasimar -> Nephilim (theory)
    • Potentially all outer plane scions will be called Nephilim

Source: Pathfinder GM Core
  • Errata for:
    • Staves
    • Talismans
    • New apex magic items
Source: Pathfinder Player Core 2
  • Class revisions for:
    • Alchemist
    • Champion
    • Oracle
  • Expanded ancestry options for:
    • catfolk,
    • gnoll,
    • hobgoblin,
    • kobold,
    • lizardfolk,
    • ratfolk,
    • tengu
  • New versatile heritage debuting.

Source: Pathfinder Monster Core
  • New dragon types…
    • power-hungry fortune dragon,
    • the peerless adamantine dragon,
    • the mischievous mirage dragon,
    • the fiendish diabolic dragon, and more!

Source: Discord


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Classes in rulebooks

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Magic missile -> force missile

_AtwY9O-wXpqc6UO0kLZApZA3dnjKrqUD4USYqpSuRrQZQs1FTvsbCDTaum7rKPsstr6HzkwLxPQGW6kxMzuXfKg23anAh_f63iDIAzfPYbC7w6zBoqZcrx15-oVwhwCLeRvNfU0PQKdsnueQg12QuM


Rage of Elements/Kineticist

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Regarding Bestiary 1 language

3NaRU4CFShtNFRtTFo2U0MajCO4VJvOBCNk7c126OYVIsX8bXktdKChMOEA9IJ5VSFlyThD9OwaUPFSUs0kIL9XzcEiLWflvdvFqE1YAZx_dn3ZOgOtCKCM4LjDH2BmgA6Y5lvuPa-EuWcssII6ysOc


3FK5v71aEM-XJs66bhyqpoEzePVdkEn_UdR3c7q4jlMHQPJlvQ1VF2H2KQIOcIDvj_zjvpXj84r-3GA5oUcPlHY1NMRfYsM5EgMLdjSsJfk37iBtHXIzhv8CgZGsqKdpAqVRM8QaJoxOPC_zhnAkvR4





 

Teemu

Hero
Interestingly it looks like Paizo is going to move away from the classic chromatic and metallic dragon groups entirely. Not sure if white, green, red, silver, gold, etc. dragons are entirely gone in PF2.5 PF2 Remastered, but they're definitely shaking things up. I could see them using the new PF2 lore as a stronger basis for world building. By new PF2 lore I mean stuff like the 4 essences, the 4 magical traditions, and so on. Currently in PF2 there's a lot of PF1 legacy content that doesn't quite align with the new ideas.

Now, is this a .5 edition? I think that's a pretty nebulous concept, but this definitely looks like a revision. So PF2 revised edition. (3.5 was also a revision...)
 



They're not printing the previous books anymore because of OGL issues though; this is not an attempt to sneak in a new edition through the back door and sugar coat it.

They already stated this was not planned as of December 2022 - i.e., the OGL situation forced them to print a version without OGL stuff as they switch away to ORC and get away from a company who's ability to think rationally about changes is clearly compromised.

That then probably prompted them to take a double take, and decide if they could do more indepth erratas and changes.

I think saying this is a new edition or something equivalent to a 3.5 style change feels wrong. I'm not sure this is even as extensive as 4e Essentials (but I am not familiar with the changes in either, to be fair).

I think this is a backwards compatible revision, mainly focused on errating classes to be better or to handle the changes in alignment essentially becoming a variant rule, and to focus on reorganising the books to be easier to read.

I don't think it's as dramatic as other book changes, honestly.
 

I am sure this is definitely a new edition. I will now call it pathfinder 3.
Backwards compatibility will be a mess.
I don't see how it can be. The only issue I can see is trying to potentially mix and match feats from non Revision and Revision Champion; and even then, perhaps the alignment changes means that there won't be that many fundamental changes.

These just got announced and there's nothing in there that fundamentally changes anything. The biggest is Alignment but there's already Variant Rules in the Gamemastery Guide to handle that situation... and it boils down to the removal of alignment detection spells, and giving different options for how to treat alignment damage. It is not substantial, and is easy to handle on the fly.
 

EthanSental

Legend
Supporter
I’ll have to check out the paizo forums and see what the more fervent PF players think. I found an old email from early 2014 from a friend about a 5e thread and rereading the posts was fun. People have differing opinions on everything, big things just treating each other with a modicum of respect and the thread was decent overall.
 

I don't see how it can be. The only issue I can see is trying to potentially mix and match feats from non Revision and Revision Champion; and even then, perhaps the alignment changes means that there won't be that many fundamental changes.

I mean, if anyone comes in with an old character and it states that they are chaotic good, I need to look up in the old book, how that works. Or at the table, we need to have a talk about if we use alignment or not and then some characters are and some are not. Can't you see how confusing that would be for new players.
Someone with 2014 rules asks them, if they are righteous or chaotic and myabe they become offended, because they don't know it was a PC trait, not referring to their binder woth loose sheets in it.
 

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