Cloverfield - The Immortal's Handbook 4E to 3.5 Conversion

Base damage looks too weak for me, hit dice also looks too low.

I'd go with at least the minimum for Macro-Fine (128), and ensure it has the Improved Natural Damage feats for every attack. That should mean its doing more akin to 10d10 base, double that for a squish.

Damage, sure, sounds good.

But why more hit points? It gets taken down by a mere MOAB after being hit with paltry aircraft missiles. Even its current 3900 hp is strictly too high; it could tank a Kiloton spell with no problem.
 

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paradox42

First Post
Damage, sure, sounds good.

But why more hit points? It gets taken down by a mere MOAB after being hit with paltry aircraft missiles. Even its current 3900 hp is strictly too high; it could tank a Kiloton spell with no problem.
On that topic, it's worth noting that one measly kiloton isn't actually very impressive by modern weapon standards. The Hiroshima bomb was 13-15 kt depending on who's doing the estimating, and that's obviously a very low-powered nuke today.
 

Khisanth the Ancient said:
Damage, sure, sounds good.

But why more hit points? It gets taken down by a mere MOAB after being hit with paltry aircraft missiles. Even its current 3900 hp is strictly too high; it could tank a Kiloton spell with no problem.

Well, as I mention in the other thread, its possible I rated the kiloton to low in 3E. That said, I don't think a MOAB should really be able to defeat a monster that size unless the creature was to swallow the bomb.

To withstand the pressures of its own mass it's bones would have to be notably tougher than steel.
 

Well, as I mention in the other thread, its possible I rated the kiloton to low in 3E.

OK, makes sense. I''ll boost the HD.


To withstand the pressures of its own mass it's bones would have to be notably tougher than steel.

Why? There are mining machines as big or bigger than the Cloverfield monster and they can support themselves just fine.

Cloverfield is estimated at ~5000 tons I think (according to the Cloverfield wiki anyway); too big for a land animal (ESPECIALLY one as agile as Cloverfield is). But it's not so insane that it needs to be some supermaterial.

Also we don't know the true internal structure of Cloverfield; does it even HAVE bones? It's not a vertebrate clearly (too many limbs, wrong shaped head); if its support structure was arranged differently it could get away with more.

Strong as steel, maybe, but no need to be stronger - steel is well stronger than bone, and bone isn't the limiting material generally (cartilage is MUCH weaker in compressive strength - human femur bone ~200 MPa vs. hyaline cartilage deforming at ~5 MPa; though this is VERY poorly known for cartilage!) The biggest dinosaurs may well have been pushing the limits for cartilage strength; they do not seem to have been pushing them for bone strength. And Cloverfield probably does not have cartilage (if I had to guess I'd suggest some sort of hydraulic system; seems appropriate as it has other vaguely arthropod-like traits.) If it doesn't ... well, it needs stronger bone still, but not THAT much stronger. (Assuming a mass of 50,000,000 Newtons, a little over 5000 tons, for Cloverfield, a mere 2 square meters of limb bone area is sufficient to apply a pressure of 25 MPa when standing, giving a safety factor of eight to allow for running, jumping etc. However, that estimate of 5000 tons is awful low....)

(Cloverfield's design is not particularly plausible, honestly, especially for something Earth derived. There are ways to make a bigger-than-dinosaur --though maybe not THAT big-- land creature plausible, but moviemakers never get them right. It's not necessarily the case that the biggest land animals we know - the big sauropods- were hitting into biomechanical limits; food could just as easily be a limiting factor. The big titanosaurs got almost as big as Amphicoelias (maybe bigger if Bruhathkayosaurus turns out to be legit) and they're not nearly as superlight in construction.)
 

Hello there! :)

Khisanth the Ancient said:
Why? There are mining machines as big or bigger than the Cloverfield monster and they can support themselves just fine.

They don't need to walk and jump about.

Cloverfield is estimated at ~5000 tons I think (according to the Cloverfield wiki anyway); too big for a land animal (ESPECIALLY one as agile as Cloverfield is). But it's not so insane that it needs to be some supermaterial.

That estimate has to be a mistake given the creatures observed size it needs to be closer to 50,000 tons.

Also we don't know the true internal structure of Cloverfield; does it even HAVE bones? It's not a vertebrate clearly (too many limbs, wrong shaped head); if its support structure was arranged differently it could get away with more.

Whatever its construction it needs to be able to support itself.

Strong as steel, maybe, but no need to be stronger - steel is well stronger than bone, and bone isn't the limiting material generally (cartilage is MUCH weaker in compressive strength - human femur bone ~200 MPa vs. hyaline cartilage deforming at ~5 MPa; though this is VERY poorly known for cartilage!) The biggest dinosaurs may well have been pushing the limits for cartilage strength; they do not seem to have been pushing them for bone strength. And Cloverfield probably does not have cartilage (if I had to guess I'd suggest some sort of hydraulic system; seems appropriate as it has other vaguely arthropod-like traits.) If it doesn't ... well, it needs stronger bone still, but not THAT much stronger. (Assuming a mass of 50,000,000 Newtons, a little over 5000 tons, for Cloverfield, a mere 2 square meters of limb bone area is sufficient to apply a pressure of 25 MPa when standing, giving a safety factor of eight to allow for running, jumping etc. However, that estimate of 5000 tons is awful low....)

Exactly, the 5000 ton estimate is ludicrous.

(Cloverfield's design is not particularly plausible, honestly, especially for something Earth derived. There are ways to make a bigger-than-dinosaur --though maybe not THAT big-- land creature plausible, but moviemakers never get them right. It's not necessarily the case that the biggest land animals we know - the big sauropods- were hitting into biomechanical limits; food could just as easily be a limiting factor. The big titanosaurs got almost as big as Amphicoelias (maybe bigger if Bruhathkayosaurus turns out to be legit) and they're not nearly as superlight in construction.)

Sauropods are fairly slow and ponderous creatures. Clover was fairly fast and could jump high into the air.
 

That estimate has to be a mistake given the creatures observed size it needs to be closer to 50,000 tons.

Ah that would make more sense.

Sauropods are fairly slow and ponderous creatures. Clover was fairly fast and could jump high into the air.

True... though sauropods (and elephants) were slow and ponderous before they got large. Still, it does require suspension of disbelief that a creature so large could be agile.

---

New revised version of Clover with more HD and higher damage, as per U_K's suggestions:

Titanic Magical Beast (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 130d20+2470 (5070 hit points)
Initiative: Always first (+13 [+5 Dex, +8 Superior Initiative])
Speed: 110 ft. (22 squares), swim 80 ft.
Armor Class: 96 (-16 size, +5 Dex, +97 natural), touch -1, flat-footed 91
Base Attack/Grapple: +130/+171
Attack: Bite +143 melee (8d6+42/19-20)
Full Attack: Bite +143 melee (8d6+42/19-20), 2 claws +140 melee (6d6+20/19-20), tail slap +141 melee (10d10+20/19-20)
Space/Reach: 225 ft./150 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease, feeding tubes, tail flail, tail smite, trample
Special Qualities: Amphibious, darkvision 60 ft., DR 50/-, fast healing 50, great leap, low-light vision, scent, shattering strength, shed parasites
Saves: Fort +86, Ref +72, Will +47
Abilities: Str 52, Dex 21, Con 49, Int 3, Wis 18, Cha 7
Skills: Jump +78, Listen +31, Spot +25, Survival +25, Swim +56
Feats: Awesome Blow, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (bite, claw, tail), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (bite, claw, tail), Improved Toughness, Multiattack, Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus (bite, tail)
Epic Feats: Blinding Speed, Devastating Critical (bite, tail), Epic Speed, Greater Power Attack, Overwhelming Critical (bite, tail), Penetrate Damage Reduction (adamantine), Power Attack Mastery, Superior Initiative, Supreme Natural Attack (bite, claw, tail)*, Supreme Toughness
Divine Abilities: Divine Toughness, Perfect Initiative
Environment: Temperate aquatic and land
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: ?
Level Adjustment: -

Combat
Disease (Ex):
Star chills, Fort DC 94, damage 1d8 Con drain. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Unlike normal diseases, star chills has an incubation period of 1 hour, and it deals damage every hour instead of every day. In addition, every time a Fortitude save against star chills fails by 5 or more (fails to beat DC 89), the period in which it deals damage decreases (to every 10 minutes, to every minute, and then to every round - star chills will never deal damage more than once per round.)

When a creature is reduced to 0 Constitution by star chills, it dies, rupturing explosively in a shower of infectious matter that forces all creatures adjacent to the victim to make a Fortitude save (DC 94) or contract star chills themselves.

Feeding Tubes (Ex): Clover may, as a standard action, make a touch attack to start a grapple against each creature three or more sizes smaller than itself in or adjacent to its space, without provoking an attack of opportunity. In addition, whenever Clover's trample damages a creature, Clover automatically makes a grapple check against that creature, without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the grapple check succeeds, in the next round, Clover can make another grapple check to swallow the victim, or can expel the victim violently (causing the victim to fall 1d6+4x10 feet and take 1d6 damage per 10 feet fallen). Expelling a victim is automatic and requires no check. Clover can make up to four grapple checks per round via its feeding tubes. Any successful grapple check made via its feeding tubes forces the opponent to make a Fortitude save (DC 91) or contract star chills.
A swallowed creature takes 4d6+21 bludgeoning and 21 acid damage and suffers 1d3 Str drain per round, and must save (Fort DC 79) each round or contract star chills. A swallowed creature can escape only by cutting its way out, dealing 250 points of damage to the interior of Clover's stomach (AC 45).

Tail Flail (Ex): As a standard action, Clover can whip its tail in frenzied motions, smashing everything nearby. All creatures and unattended objects within 60 feet of Clover take 5d10+42 damage (Reflex DC 81 half). The save DC is Strength-based.

Tail Smite (Ex): As a full attack action, Clover can make a single mighty tail slap attack at its highest attack bonus (+143), dealing 15d10+63 damage.

Trample (Ex): 4d6+63 damage, Reflex half DC 81. The save DC is Strength-based. In addition, creatures of Huge or smaller size are also affected by feeding tubes when trampled, without requiring a touch attack.

Great Leap (Ex): Clover's jumps are always made as though it had a running start, even if it jumps from a standstill. Its jumps are not limited by its height.

Shattering Strength (Ex): Clover doubles its Strength bonus when applying it to melee damage.

Shed Parasites (Ex): When Clover takes damage, it releases one parasite for every 30 points of damage it takes (round down). Parasites appear in squares adjacent to Clover; if all these squares are full, the parasite appears in the nearest open square.


*New Feat: Supreme Natural Attack [Epic]
Prerequisites:
Improved Natural Attack, base attack bonus +15
Benefit: Choose one of the creature’s natural attack forms for which it possesses the Improved Natural Attack feat. The damage for this natural weapon increases by one step, as if the creature’s size had increased by one category. This stacks (does not overlap) with Improved Natural Attack. This feat does not provide any other bonuses that a virtual size category would provide.

This feat may be taken multiple times, but each time it applies to a different natural attack (for which the creature must have the Improved Natural Attack feat).



---

Is Perfect Initiative appropriate for Clover?

Should the save to avoid star chills infection from an exploding victim have the same DC as to avoid infection from the monster, and if not, what should it be?

[sblock="Revised Parasite"]
Increased bite damage due to its large mouthparts, added the explosive feature of star chills.



Cloverfield Parasite

Medium Vermin
Hit Dice: 4d8+12 (30 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 13 (+3 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d8+3 and star chills)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d8+3 and star chills)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Group attack, star chills
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., vermin traits
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 10, Con 17, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 7
Skills: --
Feats: --
Environment: Temperate land and aquatic
Organization: Pack (2-5) or swarm (6-60)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 5-8 HD (Medium); 9-12 HD (Large)

These creatures resemble 6-foot-long, 3-foot-tall versions of lice or fleas, only with oversized mouthparts that are more horrific and jagged. Their bite carries a deadly plague.

Individual Cloverfield parasites are relatively fragile - but they are never found alone; and an infestation, unless it is the result of an unwisely opened portal or gate, is the herald of a full-scale Cloverfield monster attack.

COMBAT
Cloverfield parasites attack in groups, biting nastily. As many as possible will always focus on one target at a time, maximizing the effect of group attack.

Disease (Ex): Star chills, Fort DC 15, 1d3 Con damage. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Unlike normal diseases, star chills has an incubation period of 1 hour. In addition, every time a Fortitude save against star chills fails by 5 or more (fails to beat DC 10), the period in which it deals damage decreases (to every hour, to every 10 minutes, to every minute, and then to every round - star chills will never deal damage more than once per round.)

When a creature is reduced to 0 Constitution by star chills, it dies, rupturing explosively in a shower of infectious matter that forces all creatures adjacent to the victim to make a Fortitude save (DC 15) or contract star chills themselves.

Group Attack (Ex): For every two Cloverfield parasites attacking the same creature in the same round, all of them gain a +1 competence bonus on their attack roll against that creature for that round (maximum of +4).
[/sblock]
 
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Ah that would make more sense.



True... though sauropods (and elephants) were slow and ponderous before they got large. Still, it does require suspension of disbelief that a creature so large could be agile.

---

New revised version of Clover with more HD and higher damage, as per U_K's suggestions:

Titanic Magical Beast (Aquatic)
Hit Dice:
130d20+2470 (5070 hit points)
Initiative: Always first (+13 [+5 Dex, +8 Superior Initiative])
Speed: 110 ft. (22 squares), swim 80 ft.
Armor Class: 96 (-16 size, +5 Dex, +97 natural), touch -1, flat-footed 91
Base Attack/Grapple: +130/+171
Attack: Bite +143 melee (8d6+42/19-20)
Full Attack: Bite +143 melee (8d6+42/19-20), 2 claws +140 melee (6d6+20/19-20), tail slap +141 melee (10d10+20/19-20)
Space/Reach: 225 ft./150 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease, feeding tubes, tail flail, tail smite, trample
Special Qualities: Amphibious, darkvision 60 ft., DR 50/-, fast healing 50, great leap, low-light vision, scent, shattering strength, shed parasites
Saves: Fort +86, Ref +72, Will +47
Abilities: Str 52, Dex 21, Con 49, Int 3, Wis 18, Cha 7
Skills: Jump +78, Listen +31, Spot +25, Survival +25, Swim +56
Feats: Awesome Blow, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (bite, claw, tail), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (bite, claw, tail), Improved Toughness, Multiattack, Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus (bite, tail)
Epic Feats: Blinding Speed, Devastating Critical (bite, tail), Epic Speed, Greater Power Attack, Overwhelming Critical (bite, tail), Penetrate Damage Reduction (adamantine), Power Attack Mastery, Superior Initiative, Supreme Natural Attack (bite, claw, tail)*, Supreme Toughness
Divine Abilities: Divine Toughness, Perfect Initiative
Environment: Temperate aquatic and land
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: ?
Level Adjustment: -

Combat
Disease (Ex):
Star chills, Fort DC 94, damage 1d8 Con drain. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Unlike normal diseases, star chills has an incubation period of 1 hour, and it deals damage every hour instead of every day. In addition, every time a Fortitude save against star chills fails by 5 or more (fails to beat DC 89), the period in which it deals damage decreases (to every 10 minutes, to every minute, and then to every round - star chills will never deal damage more than once per round.)

When a creature is reduced to 0 Constitution by star chills, it dies, rupturing explosively in a shower of infectious matter that forces all creatures adjacent to the victim to make a Fortitude save (DC 94) or contract star chills themselves.

Feeding Tubes (Ex): Clover may, as a standard action, make a touch attack to start a grapple against each creature three or more sizes smaller than itself in or adjacent to its space, without provoking an attack of opportunity. In addition, whenever Clover's trample damages a creature, Clover automatically makes a grapple check against that creature, without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the grapple check succeeds, in the next round, Clover can make another grapple check to swallow the victim, or can expel the victim violently (causing the victim to fall 1d6+4x10 feet and take 1d6 damage per 10 feet fallen). Expelling a victim is automatic and requires no check. Clover can make up to four grapple checks per round via its feeding tubes. Any successful grapple check made via its feeding tubes forces the opponent to make a Fortitude save (DC 91) or contract star chills.
A swallowed creature takes 4d6+21 bludgeoning and 21 acid damage and suffers 1d3 Str drain per round, and must save (Fort DC 79) each round or contract star chills. A swallowed creature can escape only by cutting its way out, dealing 250 points of damage to the interior of Clover's stomach (AC 45).

Tail Flail (Ex): As a standard action, Clover can whip its tail in frenzied motions, smashing everything nearby. All creatures and unattended objects within 60 feet of Clover take 5d10+42 damage (Reflex DC 81 half). The save DC is Strength-based.

Tail Smite (Ex): As a full attack action, Clover can make a single mighty tail slap attack at its highest attack bonus (+143), dealing 15d10+63 damage.

Trample (Ex): 4d6+63 damage, Reflex half DC 81. The save DC is Strength-based. In addition, creatures of Huge or smaller size are also affected by feeding tubes when trampled, without requiring a touch attack.

Great Leap (Ex): Clover's jumps are always made as though it had a running start, even if it jumps from a standstill. Its jumps are not limited by its height.

Shattering Strength (Ex): Clover doubles its Strength bonus when applying it to melee damage.

Shed Parasites (Ex): When Clover takes damage, it releases one parasite for every 30 points of damage it takes (round down). Parasites appear in squares adjacent to Clover; if all these squares are full, the parasite appears in the nearest open square.


*New Feat: Supreme Natural Attack [Epic]
Prerequisites:
Improved Natural Attack, base attack bonus +15
Benefit: Choose one of the creature’s natural attack forms for which it possesses the Improved Natural Attack feat. The damage for this natural weapon increases by one step, as if the creature’s size had increased by one category. This stacks (does not overlap) with Improved Natural Attack. This feat does not provide any other bonuses that a virtual size category would provide.

This feat may be taken multiple times, but each time it applies to a different natural attack (for which the creature must have the Improved Natural Attack feat).



---

Is Perfect Initiative appropriate for Clover?

Should the save to avoid star chills infection from an exploding victim have the same DC as to avoid infection from the monster, and if not, what should it be?

[sblock="Revised Parasite"]
Increased bite damage due to its large mouthparts, added the explosive feature of star chills.



Cloverfield Parasite
Medium Vermin
Hit Dice:
4d8+12 (30 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 13 (+3 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+5
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d8+3 and star chills)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d8+3 and star chills)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Group attack, star chills
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., vermin traits
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 10, Con 17, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 7
Skills: --
Feats: --
Environment: Temperate land and aquatic
Organization: Pack (2-5) or swarm (6-60)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 5-8 HD (Medium); 9-12 HD (Large)

These creatures resemble 6-foot-long, 3-foot-tall versions of lice or fleas, only with oversized mouthparts that are more horrific and jagged. Their bite carries a deadly plague.

Individual Cloverfield parasites are relatively fragile - but they are never found alone; and an infestation, unless it is the result of an unwisely opened portal or gate, is the herald of a full-scale Cloverfield monster attack.

COMBAT
Cloverfield parasites attack in groups, biting nastily. As many as possible will always focus on one target at a time, maximizing the effect of group attack.

Disease (Ex): Star chills, Fort DC 15, 1d3 Con damage. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Unlike normal diseases, star chills has an incubation period of 1 hour. In addition, every time a Fortitude save against star chills fails by 5 or more (fails to beat DC 10), the period in which it deals damage decreases (to every hour, to every 10 minutes, to every minute, and then to every round - star chills will never deal damage more than once per round.)

When a creature is reduced to 0 Constitution by star chills, it dies, rupturing explosively in a shower of infectious matter that forces all creatures adjacent to the victim to make a Fortitude save (DC 15) or contract star chills themselves.

Group Attack (Ex): For every two Cloverfield parasites attacking the same creature in the same round, all of them gain a +1 competence bonus on their attack roll against that creature for that round (maximum of +4).
[/sblock]
I loved this movie. It could easily take a Krakentua. I think this beast was just a baby too.
 


You'll like my new book then. :cool:



I think the Clash of the Titans remake monster would (probably) defeat it.



The adult version is seen at the end of the Cloverfield Paradox movie.

Yes.

? Krakentua is an Oriental Adventures take on Cthulhu. Kinda. They're an entire race of octopoid kaiju.

I had no idea they ever showed it. I'll have to watch that.
 

31. Krakentua collage.jpg
 

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