Barbarian is up!!!

[Daniel D. Fox]

Frankly, I'd just tie the Rage into the Bloodied condition. Something like -

"When bloodied, as an immediate reaction, you can use your Daily Rage power and it lasts until a new rage is invoked or the end of the encounter."

This means the Barbarian MUST get up front and take damage. It would encourage him to invoke opportunity attacks on a metalevel to open up his Rage abilities, while doling out damage. Improved movement "harrier styler" sort of strikes would fit well. Limit rages to Dailies and it limits Rage abuse, and allows lower-level Barbarians to Rage at first level.

 

[Ktulu]

Well, I think it is a problem. It's nothing like any of the other classes have. There are a lot of other ways to do it. Like I said, I think its a cool ability. Its application needs work. The fact that so many people are having issues grasping the concept makes it a problem. I wouldn't hate the class if it stayed this way, but at the very least it needs to be explained better.

The rogue only gets one daily power use per day at level one, as does the Barbarian.

I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. It is not another power, it is a replacement for those who want to keep the frost wolf rage active while fighting a Red Dragon. If he uses another daily power (which you WOULD do against a Red Dragon), then he loses the frost wolf rage cold damage. However, because of Rage Strike, he has the ability to still do an equivalent "daily power" attack if he had a daily power to use, WITHOUT ending his raging effect.

I freakin' love this idea and can't wait to try it out.

 

[kevtar]

Rage & Rage Strike at first level

I'm not a game designer, but maybe you CAN use Rage strike at first level, but the poorly written article makes that difficult to understand.

Here's the text for a Rage:

Your daily attack powers are known as rages, and they allow you to unleash powerful bursts of emotion, willpower, and primal energy. Each rage starts with a powerful attack and then grants an ongoing benefit until the rage ends.

Ok, here's the text for Rage Strike:

Duration: Your rage lasts until you enter a new rage, until you drop to 0 hit points or fewer, or until the end of the encounter.

Rage Strike: While raging, you gain access to the power rage strike, which allows you to channel one of your unused rages into a devastating attack.

My Analysis
At first level, you activate your Rage power. It is active and won't end until one of the conditions mentioned above. Thus, if you have not met one of those conditions it has not ended and therefore is an unused rage... You're using it! It's not an unused rage because the rage isn't over.

You then activate the first level Rage Strike effect: 1st level 3[W] + Strength modifier. Why would there be a Level 1 Rage Strike effect if you couldn't use Rage Strike at first level?

I dunno, what do you think?

 

[Cadfan]

Sometimes, you really, really need to cave in something's face. Fast.

I don't see how people aren't seeing how it a) is necessary to allow them to use more than one daily a fight, like other classes can and b) Provides a tactical option for spike damage when spike damage is called for.

Right.

I don't get most of the hate for this ability.

There's no balance problems with it. AT ALL. None. The "problem," if it is that, is that it seems inelegant to grant a power at level 1 that cannot be used until level 5.

The best solution so far seems to be to just reformat it so that, instead of having a specific power to convert barbarian dailies into different barbarian dailies, each barbarian daily could just have a little entry on it- "If you are already raging, you may choose to use this attack without replacing your original rage benefit."

 

[Cadfan]

My Analysis
At first level, you activate your Rage power. It is active and won't end until one of the conditions mentioned above. Thus, if you have not met one of those conditions it has not ended and therefore is not an unused rage... You're using it! It's not an unused rage because the rage isn't over.

You then activate the first level Rage Strike effect: 1st level 3[W] + Strength modifier. Why would there be a Level 1 Rage Strike effect if you couldn't use Rage Strike at first level?

I dunno, what do you think?

I'm against.

1. If I'm using something, its not unused.

2. This sort of "hidden function" to an ability, based entirely on one possible interpretation of one word amongst many other words, is almost always not the authors intent.

This is swordmage handjive all over again. Sorry.

 

[Byronic]

Why Rage Strike?

You're fighting a Dragon. It could be any other Solo but let's say it's a Dragon. We usually find Dragons at the end of things, especially since one rarely faces something more dangerous then a Dragon in one day.

You use a Daily, it's the one you think is most suitable for this encounter. And then you use Rage Strike to burn away all your left over dailies, because if you don't kill the Dragon, the Dragon kills you. And dead men don't rage (well, undead ghosts and such besides)

Rage strike allows a barbarian to do what every other class can do. Burn all their dailies on a Dragon.

It's use less before level 5? Well that just balances it out with all the other classes who can't use two dailies before level five either.

Can't use it unless you're raged? That's okay, the mechanic is really just there so you can burn all your dailies on a Dragon.

Useless? Only if you're not raged yet and don't have a solo in sight. It's a little bit extra so barbarians can use their favourite rage and still be able to burn their dailies if they want to.

 

[Remathilis]

I don't want to inject too much into the rage-strike debate (but I will say I'm also not a fan of waiting 4 levels for a class ability to kick in), but I will say this.

Those of you who fretted that monsters have too many hp and fights take too long: meet the barbarian. The ULTIMATE "Lets speed this combat up, I need to whiz" class!

 

[Vanuslux]

I don't have a problem with the functionality of Rage Strike, but it definitely needs to be rewritten for clarity...and how hard would it be to include "Barbarians gain Rage Strike at 5th level" to the description...that alone would keep there from being a huge percentage of people who are confounded by the power just because they're trying to wrap their head around how it is useful at 1st level because common sense tells us that an ability shouldn't be given at 1st level unless it has some practical use at 1st level.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I really like the Barbarian so far. I have been playing in my head with it since midnight, and the last hour or two with one of the guys. I have to say it is diffrent...and that scares some people. I want to find the creater and shake his hand. I hope that PHB 2 (and 3 and 4 ect ect) is full of designes that take chances like this.

As for balance...I still am not sure, but maybe keeping the hit points but lowwereing the healing surges down to rouge/ranger/warlock level might make me feel a little better.

 

[Zephyrus]

For the record I generally liked the class as is, however the strong debate creates an atmosphere that some change is prudent. I like in general a lot of what the class attempts to accomplish thematically so here are my proposed changes. I feel the following might go a long ways towards resolving the issues at hand while still keeping the barbarian interesting, different and fun.



• Make all, many or most powers require a 2H melee weapon. This should help alleviate some of the multi-classing issues as it'll restrict weapon types for power-swaps of multi-class strikers like ranger and rogue as many ranger powers require a ranged weapon or be wielding two weapons and many rogue powers have rogue weapon group restrictions on their use. Similarly with a Warlock need an implement will conflict with a 2H melee weapon for available hands.

• Add that barbarians grain a +1 bonus to AC and Reflex saves when wearing light armor This bonus could increase by +1 each tier (+2 AC/Ref at Paragon and +3 at Epic) as a way of enticing them away from heavier armor and shields. While possible to get better AC’s out of heavier armor it would be feat intensive to do so compared to eventually what could be achieved without. This enticement towards light armor could be an effective alternative to heavy armor.

• Change the Rage/Dailies to reduce the weapon damage by 1W with the proviso that they can maintain a current rage/stance-like effect and have the attack deal +2W additional damage instead. This will help clear up the ‘rage-strike’ issue (in part) by eliminating the ‘chunkiness’ of having an class feature that cannot be used till 5th level by having it instead built into the rage powers themselves. The idea of reducing the Rage/Daily damage Weapon Output is balanced by their conversion of a daily into extra damage as well as that barbarians are geared towards a more level, if elevated, damage output without conditional situations like the other strikers.

• Change ‘Rage Strike’ to a Minor action but eliminate the need to burn a ‘rage/daily’ to power it. Instead it would be a STR vs. AC attack against target: enemy who you have hit or has hit you since the beginning of your last turn and have the attack do damage equal to ½ the barbarians CON modifier (maybe ½ CON +1 or +2 at 11th and +3 or +4 at 21st level). Perhaps with a special benefit that when making this attack, the barbarian is not considered marked. In effect this would be similar to a minor-action ‘cleave’ useable only while raging. This will add a little bit of extra ‘Sneak-attack/Hunter’s Quarry’ Damage without being too over-powered because it requires an additional attack roll. If you go with the special to ignore marked (for the rage strike attack only) it would grant the freedom to choose who you wish to hit, simulating a barbarian as such a wild combatant that it is hard to pin them down. The damage from this would be fairly low compared to main attacks but since it requires an action to use and requires that you hit or have been bit it will limit some the frequency it is used. Perhaps have it reduce the barbarians AC and Reflex DEF by -1 or -2 until their next turn on any turn they utilize this at-will. This clears up the other part of rage strike (and giving Barbarians a quarry/curse/sneak attack like boost).



What do you think?