D&D 5E Why is There No Warlord Equivalent in 5E?

[Undrave]

This is what I said:

*A method to heal/mitigate damage for an ally twice per day.
*A "team field" bonus that can be used once per day.
*A bonus action ability to grant an ally an attack a few times per day.

I didn't say 2-3 blesses. And given that the bonus action attacks the War Cleric gets per day are equal to their Wis, no that's not more than that at all.

And that's not taking into account the Cleric gets acces to Cantrips, including the out of combat power house Guidance, and rituals.

 

[Yaarel]

Well, if we look at 4e, the Warlord had proficiency in Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail armor as well as Light Shield (but not heavy shield). They had weapon proficiencies in Simple Melee, military melee, but only simple ranged weapons. And they had a +1 bonus to FORT and WILL defenses (none for Reflex, so I don't think DEX save is a good idea).

Personally I prefer d10, like the Ranger. The Warlord is probably not going to invest into CON that much so I see them as naturally having less HP, without being too frail that they don't feel like trained warriors. The 4e Warlord had the same HP stats as the Ranger (12+CON at level 1, 5 per level, while the Fighter was at 15 and 6 respectively) so why not?

The key ability is a choice of Mental Ability: Cha, Int, or Wis.

Even if they go with Strength as an auxiliary ability, they have to choose between agile mobility or heavy armor.

Then they need Con − because every character does.

Probably Dex is the dump stat, but many players might go Dex instead of Str.

Probably, the "typical" Warlord has both Cha and Int as the highest stats, to benefit from the class features.

The Warlord is inherently MAD.


Medium Armor seems a good idea, to benefit from some Dex but never max Dex.

For 5e, probably the saves are Wisdom (mental will) for the major save, plus a choice of either Cha, Int, or Str for the minor save.


Because the flavor is mental, the physically-focused d10 feels less resonant for the Warlord concept. Meanwhile, the Warlord will gain more hit points mentally via Warlord features. Similarly, the 4e Warlord had less hit points than the 4e Fighter.

 

[GrimCo]

Why is it not a 1 v 1 game then? Why do we have parties? When we complain that a class is too OP we constantly get told that 'balance doesn't matter', 'this is a team game' and so forth... but IS IT a team game or not?

To use sports analogy. 4e is Atletico Madrid under Cholo Simeone. Team cohesion. No superstars, but everyone does it's job and does it good. 5e is more like PSG couple of sesons ago. You have Messi, Neymar and Mbape. 3 great players on the same team, but each playing for their own glory.

You are team in a sense that you are group of adventurers with common goal. It's more about characters as individuals being good than party as a whole being good.

 

[Yaarel]

D&D Wisdom is literally intuition and empathy.

I know, but the sloppy interchangeability between Int and Wis is a huge problem, like the redundancy of "Perception" and "Investigation", and many other problems.

The "intuitive" aspects get downplayed officially anyway. I have never seen it happen in my own games. For example, the Investigation skill is for "intuition" checks.

Meanwhile everything that relies on Wisdom can be strictly the five senses: see, hear, smell, taste, and touch. Without any implied understanding of what one is looking at unless one is already familiar with it. Figuring out some obscure visual clue is an Intelligence check anyway.

That's why Clerics use Wis. They are "Pelor take the wheel" "Thor guide me" "What Would Bane Do?" Class. No Thinking All Indoctrinated Response to Stimuli.

Clerics use Wis. Because tradition. Wisdom meant something different in 1e. And was a bad idea that got abandoned in later editions. The concept of Willpower persists today. So Clerics are all about "will power".

Clerics should be about Charisma and leading and inspiring sacred communities.

 

[Micah Sweet]

D&D Wisdom is literally intuition and empathy. It's "Brain turned off " score. The animalist pattern recognition. The gut reaction.

That's why Clerics use Wis. They are "Pelor take the wheel" "Thor guide me" "What Would Bane Do?" Class. No Thinking All Indoctrinated Response to Stimuli.

The Goddess say "See undead kill undead no thinky thinky."
But.
The Goddess say "See undead kill undead no thinky thinky."

Wisdom is also the stat for all sensory information, for some reason.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why is it not a 1 v 1 game then? Why do we have parties? When we complain that a class is too OP we constantly get told that 'balance doesn't matter', 'this is a team game' and so forth... but IS IT a team game or not?

Well, if we look at 4e, the Warlord had proficiency in Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail armor as well as Light Shield (but not heavy shield). They had weapon proficiencies in Simple Melee, military melee, but only simple ranged weapons. And they had a +1 bonus to FORT and WILL defenses (none for Reflex, so I don't think DEX save is a good idea).

Personally I prefer d10, like the Ranger. The Warlord is probably not going to invest into CON that much so I see them as naturally having less HP, without being too frail that they don't feel like trained warriors. The 4e Warlord had the same HP stats as the Ranger (12+CON at level 1, 5 per level, while the Fighter was at 15 and 6 respectively) so why not?

Conceptually, it is a team game. Mechanically, it kinda isn't.

 

[Yaarel]

Wisdom is also the stat for all sensory information, for some reason.

Adding sensory information is a 3e innovation.

Wisdom is two things, willpower and sensoriality. Note, that willpower also includes mental health and saves versus insanity. In the sense of sanity, the term "wisdom" can still make sense.

Ideally, willpower goes to Charisma, sensoriality goes to Intelligence. Heh, and Wisdom ceases to exist.

That said, "Perception" is a candidate to become a new Ability. So there are eight Abilities rather than six.

• Strength-Consitution
• Dexterity-Athletics
• Intelligence-Perception
• Charisma-Wisdom.

Notice, the latter Abilities in each pairing of this eightsome are the traditional saves of: Fortitude, Reflex, Perception, and Will. Here Perception is saves against hiddenness.

 

[Minigiant]

I know, but the sloppy interchangeability between Int and Wis is a huge problem, like the redundancy of "Perception" and "Investigation", and many other problems.

They arent interchangable

INT and WIS are 2 very different concepts.

Clerics use Wis. Because tradition. Wisdom meant something different in 1e. And was a bad idea that got abandoned in later editions. The concept of Willpower persists today. So Clerics are all about "will power".

Clerics should be about Charisma and leading and inspiring sacred communities.

Clerics are WIS because traditionally Clerics are warrior-priest sent out by churchs and gods to kill stuff or retrieve stuff.

Inspiring people isn't the point.

Wisdom is also the stat for all sensory information, for some reason.

Again. Not thinking. Gut reaction and Sensory triggers.

 

[Yaarel]

They arent interchangable

INT and WIS are 2 very different concepts.

What matters is which mechanics players use during gameplay. Any difference must be mechanical − or it didnt happen.

Clerics are WIS because traditionally Clerics are warrior-priest sent out by churchs and gods to kill stuff or retrieve stuff.

Inspiring people isn't the point.

Again. Not thinking. Gut reaction and Sensory triggers.

Senses − as in good vision, good hearing, etcetera is Wisdom. There are mechanics for this and they happen frequently during gameplay.

Gut reactions, no.

 

[Minigiant]

What matters is which mechanics players use during gameplay. Any difference must be mechanical − or it didnt happen.

Can't have it both ways.
Can't say the official meanings are bad and never read them.
If someone says they don't get it but ignores the Active INT and Passive WIS explanation most most editions give, that's on them.