D&D 5E Why is There No Warlord Equivalent in 5E?

[FrogReaver]

Honestly one of the biggest things that allowed PF2 to find its footing that it took from 4E was its "You multiclass by taking feats", which ended up allowing the early levels of a class to be distinct and interesting because you couldn't just dip in for the good stuff. The problems with early-level D&D is that they have to take precautions on giving you too much early on because dippers will use and abuse it.

I dislike multiclass by feats. That said I’m happy with no multiclassing. Nearly every multiclass character would be more compelling if there was an actual class behind it.

 

[Justice and Rule]

I dislike multiclass by feats. That said I’m happy with no multiclassing. Nearly every multiclass character would be more compelling if there was an actual class behind it.

I think multiclassing feats works when you have enough feats to do it, and allows you to curate which features can be combined with what. But I'd agree that making more classes that fill more niches might be a better solution than what D&D currently has.

 

[Minigiant]

The main problem with Defenders was how easy some of them were to disable

It's the drawback of fighting complex mechanics (teleports, Debuffs,) with simple mechanics

Really they should have leaned of power source

Martial Defenders (big stats and speed) should be better at Defending against Martial Monsters (big stats and speed)

Divine Defenders (heals, smites, and self buffs) should be better at Defending against Divine Monsters (heals, smites, and self buffs)

Arcane Defenders (teleports and debuffs) should be better at Defending against Arcane Monsters (teleports and debuffs)

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

A class isn't only a list of class features, but also the marks of identity, and also the subclasses should show their themself.

I propose an exercise of imagination:

Thanks a collab between WotC and Japanese novel self-publishing website Shōsetsuka ni Narō there is a literary contest. It has to be a story about a character from Kamigawa: Neon Dinasty who is killed during the Phyrexian invasion (let's be more original than the isekai trope of hit by a truck) and (s)he is reincarnated within a D&D world. This character becomes a warlord, with a group of allies (a harem of monster girls if you want). The goal is to create a warlord character so interesting than players want to play with this new class.

How would you design this warlord? It will be for a "litRPG", and then the background of the character(s) is more important than the gameplay.

 

[Undrave]

I’m curious, What combination of abilities would it take to be a warlord at level 1?

There's a bunch of posibility. Could bean at-will commander's strike, some sort of passive 'presence' buff, something like 'if you hit someone, the next attack against them gains X', a bonus action to maneuver allies around, some sort of temp HP generation, or maybe your choice from any of those. I'm no super difficult on it, as long as it's got the right feel and doesn't rely on limited ressources.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I’m curious, What combination of abilities would it take to be a warlord at level 1?

For my part, level 1 only truly requires two things.

The first is some ability to actually heal (not THP, not damage prevention, not any other thing that isn't actual regain of HP, actually regaining HP) during combat. Warlords need to be able to fill the "support" role in the absence of any other class that actually does healing, and all classes that can fulfill that role have (partially or fully opt-in) access to such tools every day, albeit with associated resource costs. Given first-level characters have only 1 HD and I do think linking recovery to HD expenditure is warranted, I don't see a need to harshly restrict how frequently this ability can be used.

The second is some form of buffing or aiding allies to do better in combat. Actual numerical buffs (e.g. attack or AC increases), allowing allies to make saving throws, repositioning allies (e.g. to pull an ally out of harm's way or push an ally into a better spot), or setting up a particular enemy so that allies perform better against them, would all be perfectly cromulent possibilities for the character to get one option from. I imagine this is where you would differentiate subclasses at 1st level.

So....yeah. One ability to heal, dependent on HD spending, and one ability to buff/aid/support.

I personally say the class should have d8 HP,* light and medium armor, shields, and all simple and martial weapons. Saves are Str/Dex.** Class skill options: Athletics, Deception, History, Intimidation, Medicine, Perception, Persuasion, Survival.*** Requires Charisma 13 and Strength 13 to multiclass.

*Some subclasses may follow the Draconic Sorcerer model of giving +1 HP/class level, the sort of faux-HD-increase feature.
**I expect there to be a "tactic" (invocation-type stuff) that allows the choice of either Wis or Con as an additional save.
***I think it would be cool, and distinctive, to give each Warlord subclass a thematically-appropriate additional skill training, e.g. Sappers and Skirmishers might get Stealth, Knight-Enchanter would obviously get Arcana, Vanguard could get Survival, etc.

 

[cbwjm]

This is one those things I don't actually feel the need for the warlord to have (maybe this is one of the points that always causes warlord fans to argue about), is healing. I like the idea of granting temp hit points, I think it's cool for them to bolster their allies, but healing doesn't seem integral to the concept of a warlord, especially with how easy it is to heal up in 5e.

I also feel like this should feel like a Warrior, having extra attack, having a warrior's hit die (d10), and training in all martial weapons as well as all armour and shields. I guess I could see them in medium armour with a subclass that specifically grants heavy armour as a bonus proficiency.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

For my part, level 1 only truly requires two things.

The first is some ability to actually heal (not THP, not damage prevention, not any other thing that isn't actual regain of HP, actually regaining HP) during combat. Warlords need to be able to fill the "support" role in the absence of any other class that actually does healing, and all classes that can fulfill that role have (partially or fully opt-in) access to such tools every day, albeit with associated resource costs. Given first-level characters have only 1 HD and I do think linking recovery to HD expenditure is warranted, I don't see a need to harshly restrict how frequently this ability can be used.

The second is some form of buffing or aiding allies to do better in combat. Actual numerical buffs (e.g. attack or AC increases), allowing allies to make saving throws, repositioning allies (e.g. to pull an ally out of harm's way or push an ally into a better spot), or setting up a particular enemy so that allies perform better against them, would all be perfectly cromulent possibilities for the character to get one option from. I imagine this is where you would differentiate subclasses at 1st level.

So....yeah. One ability to heal, dependent on HD spending, and one ability to buff/aid/support.

I personally say the class should have d8 HP,* light and medium armor, shields, and all simple and martial weapons. Saves are Str/Dex.** Class skill options: Athletics, Deception, History, Intimidation, Medicine, Perception, Persuasion, Survival.*** Requires Charisma 13 and Strength 13 to multiclass.

*Some subclasses may follow the Draconic Sorcerer model of giving +1 HP/class level, the sort of faux-HD-increase feature.
**I expect there to be a "tactic" (invocation-type stuff) that allows the choice of either Wis or Con as an additional save.
***I think it would be cool, and distinctive, to give each Warlord subclass a thematically-appropriate additional skill training, e.g. Sappers and Skirmishers might get Stealth, Knight-Enchanter would obviously get Arcana, Vanguard could get Survival, etc.

So my proposed fighting style would do it:
1. Use second wind on others. A real heal.
2. Trade an attack for an ally's attack. (Not exactly a buff. I thought the attack granting was more important.)

If you want more buffing, swap 2. with:
2. Allies gain +prof bonus to initiative.

But if you really want to do a class, your proposal could work. Faux-HP increase might be ok. You can let the class start with light armor and then give a cleric like ability at level 1 that decides which armor you are proficient with.
It would help balance out martial vs magic.
It is still not my preferred way of doing it. But if it makes warlord people happy. Go for it.

Just don't add needless subsystems. I think using the battle master maneuvers (in better scaling form) as their way of doing something would be best.
If you do it that way, the battle master will be a warlord light, as the eldritch knight is a wizard light.

Now the feat that grants battlemaster maneuvers would grant warlord maneuvers instead. Would be way better from a design perspective.

 

[Staffan]

This is one those things I don't actually feel the need for the warlord to have (maybe this is one of the points that always causes warlord fans to argue about), is healing. I like the idea of granting temp hit points, I think it's cool for them to bolster their allies, but healing doesn't seem integral to the concept of a warlord, especially with how easy it is to heal up in 5e.

Healing is essential if you want the Warlord to be able to replace a Cleric in the party, and that is a vital part of what it's there for.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

A warlord with magic-like powers to heal allies would be something like the battlemind class from 4ed or the ardent/divine mind class from 3.5.

If a fantasy army would need magical healing, then instead a warlord a bard would be hired as drummer boy/fifer/bugler.

A warlord shouldn't be spellcaster-like class,(subclasses are a different thing), but it could be a magic-user class, using magic items, for example a magic banner.


The warlord should be designed for campaigns with low-level magic.

Maybe it is not about magic healing but temporal hit points, like the barbarian, or the shield-field by the protoss in Starcraft.

* The "supporter" heroes in Overwatch are Ana, Baptiste, Brigitte, Illari, Kiriko, Lifeweaver, Lúcio, Mercy, Moira and Zenyatta, but the Junker Queen would be the closest one to a warlord background.