D&D General When to know a rule?

[EzekielRaiden]

No. You misunderstand me.

If the players go there, and learn of the armor, of course I tell them abut it.

I'm asking if the character should know about the armor before encountering it in game.

Depends. Are you going to make a big deal out of it? As stated in the original framing, it's something the players already know exists, hence why I made repeated references to stuff like "is it available for purchase or barter or" etc., hence why I asked how the players could know anything at all about it before they arrive somewhere.

If the players are asking to know the details, they have to have already known it exists, which means the DM has to have already told them it exists. Doing that and then being all coy about what it does just seems needlessly dickish. I'm not seeing how the players could somehow spontaneously predict that there will be special new dwarven armor without ever hearing the slightest bit about it from the DM first.

 

[SkidAce]

Depends. Are you going to make a big deal out of it? As stated in the original framing, it's something the players already know exists, hence why I made repeated references to stuff like "is it available for purchase or barter or" etc., hence why I asked how the players could know anything at all about it before they arrive somewhere.

If the players are asking to know the details, they have to have already known it exists, which means the DM has to have already told them it exists. Doing that and then being all coy about what it does just seems needlessly dickish. I'm not seeing how the players could somehow spontaneously predict that there will be special new dwarven armor without ever hearing the slightest bit about it from the DM first.

I must have misunderstood something, my apologies.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Back in the days we put armor on without knowing the exact game effects... we also used magic weapons without knowing the exact +'s.

And if we encointered new spells, of course we did not know anything about that.

Even though we play it differently now, no, players don' t have to know all the rules beforehand (if you count spells as rules). The first time they encounter the effect of those spells, maybe. But not before.

 

[Hussar]

Before the characters ever went to that area and found out about the armor?

Again, not unrealistic. Despite me never actually seeing a Pagani hypercar, I do know that they exist and that they are super fast and incredibly expensive. It's not unreasonable that the characters may have heard that there is this new (or maybe not new, maybe it's been around for a while) type of armor that the dwarves in this area make and it has this or that property. Particularly if it's better than what is usually to be had.

This isn't a terribly bizarre thing for characters to know.

As far as the spell list goes, there's also the point that the players might want to take a gander to see if they might like to pick up one of these spells. After all, 5e casters don't need to research spells - most of the classes just get new spells automatically as they level. So, if Goblin Glue is a spell that is out there, why shouldn't the players be able to ask to see it?

I wonder how many DM's allow players to create entirely new spells for their characters when they level up and then are perfectly content to not see the write up of the spell until it's cast at the table. I'm pretty sure not a single DM would EVER allow that.

Presumably @bloodtide has these spells written up somewhere. With that many, I would hope so. And, again, presumably, it's in a format that it would not be terribly difficult to hand to the players - a word doc or something similar. Maybe it's a hand written notebook. I dunno. Don't care. I'm just not seeing the point in having several hundred pages of material that is available to characters - after all, spells ARE available to characters - and then hiding it and doling it out piecemeal.

If I had created 500 spells, I'd be pretty proud of my work and I'd want to share it with my players. If nothing else, I'd want them to check my work.

 

[bloodtide]

I wonder how many DM's allow players to create entirely new spells for their characters when they level up and then are perfectly content to not see the write up of the spell until it's cast at the table. I'm pretty sure not a single DM would EVER allow that.

Very true. As the DM runs the game, and players just play in the game. Also the players have a stake in the game, but the DM does not.

Presumably @bloodtide has these spells written up somewhere. With that many, I would hope so. And, again, presumably, it's in a format that it would not be terribly difficult to hand to the players - a word doc or something similar. Maybe it's a hand written notebook. I dunno. Don't care. I'm just not seeing the point in having several hundred pages of material that is available to characters - after all, spells ARE available to characters - and then hiding it and doling it out piecemeal.

If I had created 500 spells, I'd be pretty proud of my work and I'd want to share it with my players. If nothing else, I'd want them to check my work.

I "share" the spells when they get cast on the characters during the game play.

I'm not the type of DM that wants or needs players to "check my work". I'm far more an expert then my players.

 

[TiQuinn]

I'm not the type of DM that wants or needs players to "check my work". I'm far more an expert then my players.

Nothing sus about that statement.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I wonder how many DM's allow players to create entirely new spells for their characters when they level up and then are perfectly content to not see the write up of the spell until it's cast at the table. I'm pretty sure not a single DM would EVER allow that.

Yeah...I find the asymmetry here pretty telling.

 

[Lanefan]

If you're telling me the armor is there, why aren't you saying even the slightest bit about what it does?

Maybe to pique your (in-character) interest, giving you a choice whether or not to go to where the armour is and investigate further?

I mean, if I'm in Baldur's Gate looking to upgrade my armour and rumours reach me that some Fancy-Dan new armour has just been developed in Waterdeep that no-one here knows much about, then I can either take the in-game time to go to Waterdeep and inquire further or I can skip it and settle for whatever's available in B's Gate.

 

[Lanefan]

I wonder how many DM's allow players to create entirely new spells for their characters when they level up and then are perfectly content to not see the write up of the spell until it's cast at the table. I'm pretty sure not a single DM would EVER allow that.

Given that development of a new spell would (one would think) require some DM involvement anyway, even if only to assign costs and determine how long it takes, it's hard to imagine a situation where a player could have their character drop a brand new spell on the game without the DM having any forewarning.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Maybe to pique your (in-character) interest, giving you a choice whether or not to go to where the armour is and investigate further?

I mean, if I'm in Baldur's Gate looking to upgrade my armour and rumours reach me that some Fancy-Dan new armour has just been developed in Waterdeep that no-one here knows much about, then I can either take the in-game time to go to Waterdeep and inquire further or I can skip it and settle for whatever's available in B's Gate.

I don't see the point of such coy teasing. "Oh, I know all about it, but I'm not telling you anything. And nobody else will either, teehee!"