I have a simpler explanation. They meant gorillas, they intended gorillas have a strength of 16. Meaning your human fighter at level 1, has the same strength as a gorilla.
Then they should have called it a gorilla, not an ape. Ape encompasses much more than just gorilla...
The 10th... what? Because there is another factor you haven't considered. Speed. The Mississipi does have the highest discharge rate, but the current averages 1.2 mph. That is a walking speed. A current that needs to be resisted, sure, but not nearly a death sentence, like white water rapids can be.
That much water, even moving at 1.2 mph, is a tremedous amount of force to even more
with let alone resist.
For the entire mile? And filling the entire 30 ft depth of the river? It looks... to not have a bunch of stuff clogging every foot of the river, in any picture I've seen.
Probably not, of course, be as often as it might occur (who knows, right?) it would half the speed during those checks.
You think swimming in the Mississippi is clearly a DC 20 task? Well... let's examine that.
According to the rules, a DC 20 is a check that requires proficiency (ie training) and higher than average scores to accomplish. DMG pg 238, if you are curious. So, is swimming in the Mississippi something that can only be done by trained athletes above the normal strength of average people?
Yes, DC 20 does require training an higher than average ability to accomplish. Your average person would not be able to swim a mile and not drown.
Absolutely not. Not a single person in that news story hesitated to say that they would absolutely swim in the River. One person even equated it to swimming in a lake (lakes, famous for their powerful currents)
Have you
ever swum a mile? I have, in Boy Scouts, across a lake. With people in boats going with us to help if we got cramps, became fatigued, etc. Lake currents are not nearly as strong as the current flow of a river like the Mississippi. It isn't called "The Mighty Mississippi" for nothing, you know. Lake currents are only strong IF you near a river system of a lake.
Now, lakes can be "choppy" with worse waves, of course.
Now, you might argue: "But those people weren't trying to swim the full mile across!" Yeah... but the DC 20 is for swimming in the river at all, not for swimming the distance.
You might also argue that these people aren't in full armor... but the armor isn't changing the DC, the armor is changing the speed the character is swimming.
Well, I wouldn't argue those points because they don't have anything to do with the DC, as you point out. Distance determines time, and thus the number of checks. Armor simply hinders the speed.
So, no matter how you slice it... DC 20 is wrong. DC 15 might even be extreme, since according to someone who actually swam in the Mississippi it is equivalent to swimming in a lake, not a death sentence like you are making it out to be.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The DC doesn't change according to who is doing it. The DC would be 20 (or worse!). A trained swimmer who practices endurance swims, etc. would benefit from an actual bonus to the check, not +0, and would be swimming an full speed (since they are not wearing armor).
Moving goalposts? Not at all. You standard DnD party moving at a normal pace, hikes 24 miles in a day. Right there in the rules. You... are familiar with how fast a party moves overland right?
Hmm... let me think.
Yeah, probably more familiar with them then you are.
Yep, moved goalposts. You said:
In DnD, a scholar who has never picked up a pack in his life can slug on an 80 lbs backpack, take an 8 hour march across rough terrain, go to sleep, and do it again the next morning. For a month.
Nothing there about the distance you want him to travel, is there? 8 hour march in rough terrain (rough = difficult, right? I mean, they
are synonyms...) would only be 12 miles, not 24 anyway. And, you don't actually think it is 8 hours moving constantly, right? It is 8 hours in the course of the day of travelling, which includes periods of rest, eating, etc.
Also, I love how you immediately went "well, this is why we have variant rules".
Well, not immediately.
I simply brought it up because it IS in the rules (not like a houserule or anything) and there explicitly for groups who want more detailed rules for how weight hinders movement. It is still "simple" but not overly simplified as the baseline RAW.
I mean, am I not allowed to bring up valid points about how the game was designed???
My post has been about the fact that the base rules allow 1st level human fighters to achieve things beyond human strength and endurance, and you immediately try and move to a harsher, variant rule... because the baseline is too forgiving.
Well, baseline IS forgiving, which is fine if you want to keep your game simple. I didn't immediate go to it, and it is there for a reason.
Humans IRL can accomplish things 1st level human fighters can't by RAW. Look at weight-lifting competitions. The most a PC can LIFT in RAW is 30 x STR. At 1st level, max human strength is 18, 20 if you allow the floating +2 ASI. That is 600 lbs, which is pathetic compared to real life world records...
Honestly, we BOTH know the rules aren't meant to express real life or simulate it. They are an approximation at best for a game.
Okay, so... what's the point of this all then?
LOL I'm having fun, aren't you?
See, I think this is the issue. Plausibility.
Yes. But what seems plausible to one person often isn't to another. Which is the issue as well.
You seem to be approaching from "Is this plausible for a human"
True. That is my approach. However, plausible also stretches beyond real world for me. People can do INCREDIBLE things IRL, so going a bit further makes it fantasy for me, without necessarily being "magical" or "superhuman".
For example, a rogue leaping over 40 feet from the roof on one side of the street to another roof on the other side is certainly beyond real life, but in a fantasy setting it is something I can certainly imagine.
My approach is far more rooted in "is this plausible for someone with this level of capability". This is why the level 1 strength of a gorilla is important. Or noticing that the strongest vampires are strength 18. Because while it may not be plausible for someone to rip a steel door from stone and use it as a shield... A vampire with "super strength" would be able to do it. So someone as strong or stronger should be capable of doing it.
Sure, level of capacity is part of plausibility for me, too. The problem is comparing game designed creatures, rules, and systems to real-life facts. They rarely ever work out to be even close to each other.
Now, I mentioned the leaping rogue above. But I never mentioned his level, ability scores, or anything else. If it is plausible to me, I imagine he has whatever capacity is necessary for the task. But speaking of jumping, the rules don't allow for a PC to do a 30-foot running long jump without having a "magical/mystical" feature, such as Step of the Wind.
