D&D General Less is More: Why You Can't Get What You Want in D&D

[Alzrius]

Anyone have a precis of this OP they would like to share?

Presuming I understood it correctly, it's that 5E's comparative simplicity (where the comparison is to certain previous editions of D&D, or games like Pathfinder) is a deliberate aspect of its design; indeed, one of the central aspects of it. As such, raising a question of whether or not some new feature would be a good addition to the game (in terms of being offered in an official, first-party product) means potentially overlooking that any kind of addition, regardless of its merits, runs the risk of violating this principle...which is why you'll probably never see it added (officially).

 

[FrogReaver]

@Snarf Zagyg

Were you going for irony by starting a thread titled ‘Less is More’ yet having the longest opening post ever?

Asking for a friend

 

[MichaelSomething]

If you a believer of the more is more approach, then consider Level Up. It's a 5E(ish) system that adds all sorts of cool stuff you can add to your 5E game. From the same people who brought you this very forum!

 

[MGibster]

More is more is how we get Rifts.

 

[TiQuinn]

Another aspect of this is that as you continue to add new features to TTRPGs (like 5e), you are continuing to come up with new rules and new "meta-rules" (aka, rules that break other rules). All the new rules that you add have to interact with all the rules already in place.

I blame Twilight Clerics. I actually don’t think it’s new rules the way you describe them that’s the problem, it’s knowing when certain combinations of rules will just break. It’s like Xanathar’s was a godsend for 5e…and then there was Tasha’s.

 

[Quickleaf]

After playing games like Cairn and Tiny Dungeons, it's hard to think of 5e D&D as being "subtractive design" or simple.

So I guess it's really a matter of personal experience and tastes. Coming from 3rd edition or PF, yep, I could see 5e seeming simple in comparison.

 

[Minigiant]

Less is More...

If you are creative enough to bring new ideas to keep the game fresh.

The main argument against Less is More is running out of little ideas

The main concern with the current path of 5e is that the current designers are tapped out of the wall little ideas that they have been using to build books.

The narratives significance of some of the subclasses and feats in Tasha's was weak. And some were reprints. So how would the next major splat book look m Do they have good ideas for two sub classes for every class That would be worth buying another major supplement? Are there any popular settings from pre-2000 that they can use to make books or will they have to dip back into settings that aren't new and shiny.

Updated Core books might be being printed for this year but we are still at "late stage edition" 5e If you don't have more to sell.

I mean we have a thread in this forum where people are asking why are they trying to sell Greyhawk to 25 year olds.

 

[Minigiant]

I blame Twilight Clerics. I actually don’t think it’s new rules the way you describe them that’s the problem, it’s knowing when certain combinations of rules will just break. It’s like Xanathar’s was a godsend for 5e…and then there was Tasha’s.

5e was not designed for Less is More.

Subclasses are too weak. So the designers hit the bounds of their design space FAST

Feats and Epic Booms were thought of as optional so there was not a strong balance system in their design.

The spell list were not futureproofed. Wizards of the Coast try to future-proof them in the new core books and realized because they waited so long the fan base would erupt if they try to futureproof the spell list.

If you want "less is more" you have to design for it

5E was designed similar to the editions before it It just released material slower.

 

[TiQuinn]

5e was not designed for Less is More.

Sure, they have no incentive to do so. Like you said it’s always this way unless you as the DM choose to restrict source material.

 

[Minigiant]

Sure, they have no incentive to do so. Like you said it’s always this way unless you as the DM choose to restrict source material.

But WOTC wants to dripfeed books for at least a decade more.

5e wasn't Designed for that. And the designers dumped their creative load too early. In a system not designed for that.