Spoilers 3 Body Problem

[ART!]

Like others, I could not make it through the first book, but liked a lot of the ideas.

I tried watching the Chinese adaptation, and although it seems to have a very nice budget I did not find it engaging.

We watched the first 2-3 episodes of the Netflix adaptation, and...I doubt we'll watch any more. I like some things about it, but then there's stuff that just does not work for me. It all just seems a bit rote.

 

[Dire Bare]

Well, the dynamics of Alpha Centauri as depicted in the novel/show are as realistic as cyclic world destroying supervolcanoes. Alpha Centauri A and B are comparatively close to each other, think Sun-Ice Giants distances, while Proxima Centauri is about 500-1000 times farther, so A and B act on Proxima basically only through their combined mass. It takes Proxima around half a million year to orbit around AB. To put this in perspective, it took us more than 100 years of observations to prove that Proxima is actually gravitationally bound to AB and not just some freak stellar alignment. Any planet in Proxima habitable zone would stay there basically forever*, while any planet subject to a level of orbital perturbations similar to that of Trisolaris would likely have been completely ejected from the system in the early phases of formation.

It's an interesting premise, and it's not a physically impossible scenario, but cycling world destroying supervolcanoes on human timescales are not impossible either.

*From the point of view of the development of a human like civilisation.

Not really.

I mean, sure, the 3-star system of Alpha Centauri is likely not depicted accurately, and if the system had a planet that bounced around the stars in-and-out of habitable zones . . . it's likely life would struggle to take hold at all. It's science fiction, not science fact.

But good science fiction takes something that exists and then posits "What if?" Like what if a civilization on a planet in the Alpha Centauri system managed to survive being tossed between stars . . . what would that look like?

Our own planet has had supervolcanoes . . . in conjunction with other events and climate changes . . . cause mass extinctions. However, these are non-cyclical events in our planet's past and are unlikely to repeat anytime (geologically) soon.

Could you posit a planet that does have some sort of supervolcanic disaster cycle that sets back, but doesn't completely destroy, a sentient civilization? Well, sure! It doesn't match with our current understanding of such things, but sure, why not? But the idea that there is no functional difference between that and what happens in the "3 Body Problem" book and series . . . . nah.

This is, IMO, a weird conversation point . . . so, I'm out.

 

[Stalker0]

Not really.

I mean, sure, the 3-star system of Alpha Centauri is likely not depicted accurately, and if the system had a planet that bounced around the stars in-and-out of habitable zones . . . it's likely life would struggle to take hold at all. It's science fiction, not science fact.

But good science fiction takes something that exists and then posits "What if?" Like what if a civilization on a planet in the Alpha Centauri system managed to survive being tossed between stars . . . what would that look like?

Our own planet has had supervolcanoes . . . in conjunction with other events and climate changes . . . cause mass extinctions. However, these are non-cyclical events in our planet's past and are unlikely to repeat anytime (geologically) soon.

Could you posit a planet that does have some sort of supervolcanic disaster cycle that sets back, but doesn't completely destroy, a sentient civilization? Well, sure! It doesn't match with our current understanding of such things, but sure, why not? But the idea that there is no functional difference between that and what happens in the "3 Body Problem" book and series . . . . nah.

This is, IMO, a weird conversation point . . . so, I'm out.

My original critique with the Netflix show (which may be a replication error from the books I don’t know) isn’t that the 3 body problem as outlined isn’t realistic. I can buy it as much as any sci fi concept.

It’s that the show seems to weirdly make a big deal about it without narrative payoff. For example, a good portion of the show is in the VR game, and apparantly just figuring out the game is about the 3 body problem was one of the keys to move forward.

But why do the aliens care? I can understand wanting humans to understand your history and empathize with it as a good step towards indoctrination, so why make that part such a mystery you have to figure out? Why not just state at the very beginning what is going on, and then show all the poor aliens (in human guise) getting destroyed in so many ways to build that initial empathy.

 

[payn]

My original critique with the Netflix show (which may be a replication error from the books I don’t know) isn’t that the 3 body problem as outlined isn’t realistic. I can buy it as much as any sci fi concept.

It’s that the show seems to weirdly make a big deal about it without narrative payoff. For example, a good portion of the show is in the VR game, and apparantly just figuring out the game is about the 3 body problem was one of the keys to move forward.

But why do the aliens care? I can understand wanting humans to understand your history and empathize with it as a good step towards indoctrination, so why make that part such a mystery you have to figure out? Why not just state at the very beginning what is going on, and then show all the poor aliens (in human guise) getting destroyed in so many ways to build that initial empathy.

It aint about building empathy. Its about gauging humans and rooting out threats.

 

[Dire Bare]

It aint about building empathy. Its about gauging humans and rooting out threats.

It's both, at least in the TV show.

At first, the aliens plan on peacefully co-existing with humans and do try and build empathy through the game and through interaction with their cultists.

But they want to be in charge, so they are sabotaging our science by messing with our super-colliders and by either recruiting or driving insane our best and brightest scientists.

But then, they learn that humanity can be dishonest and liars . . . a concept they are unfamiliar with and frightens them. So then, the goal shifts from co-existence to subjugation.

I don't think the show makes that distinction super clear, not sure about the book.

 

[payn]

It's both, at least in the TV show.

At first, the aliens plan on peacefully co-existing with humans and do try and build empathy through the game and through interaction with their cultists.

But they want to be in charge, so they are sabotaging our science by messing with our super-colliders and by either recruiting or driving insane our best and brightest scientists.

But then, they learn that humanity can be dishonest and liars . . . a concept they are unfamiliar with and frightens them. So then, the goal shifts from co-existence to subjugation.

I don't think the show makes that distinction super clear, not sure about the book.

Maybe I missed something? I dont recall the San-Ti ever expecting peaceful co-existence in novel or series.

 

[Dire Bare]

Maybe I missed something? I dont recall the San-Ti ever expecting peaceful co-existence in novel or series.

Again, I don't think the TV show was super clear on this either way, but . . .

The San-Ti don't lie . . . they may deceive in other ways, by withholding information from their followers or by misdirecting . . .

But their followers on Earth are convinced that the San-Ti are going to save humanity and become our benevolent overlords. Until Evans (Jonathan Pryce) starts reading them fairy tales and they realize that humans have this concept of "lying" . . . the San-Ti at that point become rather more clearly our future not-so-benevolent overlords or even perhaps our exterminators. After all, we are bugs . . .

 

[payn]

Again, I don't think the TV show was super clear on this either way, but . . .

The San-Ti don't lie . . . they may deceive in other ways, by withholding information from their followers or by misdirecting . . .

But their followers on Earth are convinced that the San-Ti are going to save humanity and become our benevolent overlords. Until Evans (Jonathan Pryce) starts reading them fairy tales and they realize that humans have this concept of "lying" . . . the San-Ti at that point become rather more clearly our future not-so-benevolent overlords or even perhaps our exterminators. After all, we are bugs . . .

Well the initial message said humans would be screwed if they contacted the San-Ti again. Which the reply was “ so what? We suck come take us over I’ll leave the back door open. “

Evans refers to them as “my lord” that’s not peaceful co-existence it’s subjugation.

 

[Dire Bare]

Well the initial message said humans would be screwed if they contacted the San-Ti again. Which the reply was “ so what? We suck come take us over I’ll leave the back door open. “

Evans refers to them as “my lord” that’s not peaceful co-existence it’s subjugation.

Yeah . . . an individual among the San-Ti warned Ye Wenjie to not contact them again . . . that individual knew the San-Ti would try and displace humanity to some degree, and they were, of course, correct.

But she did contact them, and they convinced her that they would become humanity's benevolent overlords. She thought that was superior to allowing humanity to continue to destroy our planet and each other. They didn't lie to her, but they did change their minds after learning about human deception from Evans.

Ye Wenjie, over her lifetime leading the alien cultists, learned that the San-Ti could be ruthless in pursuing their goals . . . but still believed, until she was arrested and learned how Evans screwed the pooch, that allowing the San-Ti to become our overlords was the only hope for humanities survival.

 

[MNblockhead]

Well the initial message said humans would be screwed if they contacted the San-Ti again. Which the reply was “ so what? We suck come take us over I’ll leave the back door open. “

Evans refers to them as “my lord” that’s not peaceful co-existence it’s subjugation.

It is more that it was subjugation, probably culling most but leaving some of the chosen. But later, as they learned more about humans, the plan changed to extermination. But that may be more from the show than the books. From the books, I remember more about the two pro-santi human factions, which was glossed over (ignored really) in the TV show. I'm trying to remember the evolution of the santi's plan as it was revealed in the books. I just remember it being quite dark from the beginning. Some santi scientists who were attracted to the freedom and individuality of humans tried to work against their own kind and warn the humans. But I would need to skim over the first book again to refresh my recollection on the relevant events. The Netflix series simplifies the story a bit, but still admirably keeps true to the main themes and beats.