Just how do Pantheonic Destroyers work for higher powered pantheons? Also, Tutelars

[Deinos]

So the idea that each pantheon has an intermediate-deity Godslayer, a greater-deity Cosmic Umbilical/megadragon, and an elder one Pantheonic Destroyer, greatly intrigues me.

But what about for a pantheon that is not static? Will a freshly ascended pantheon of PCs, who have all become, say, lesser deities, create a fully powered Godslayer, Megadragon, and Pantheonic Destroyer immediately, or will they be scaled to the PCs?

If the PCs manage to obtain Elder One or greater status, will the Anti-Trinity grow in power as well?

Also, as to Apertures. They grow in power the longer they have remained open; this suggests that any Tutelar in control of one (or a batch) will eventually ascend to Elder One status. It mentions that the Gods find any who would ascend to such status to be a threat to the cosmic balance; does that mean that a Tutelar who has been in possession of an aperture since its creation 10 million years ago will be viewed with antagonism by intermediate and greater gods? I suppose

Should clusters of Tutelars have their own Anti-Trinities? Is a group of Tutelars even a Pantheon?

Lastly, am I right to assume that an Aperture's power does not diminish if its Custodian dies? Normally, a god loses 90% of his QP upon death, but presumably a Custodian who is godly due to his Aperture's power but dies, can just be resurrected and return to his Aperture to reclaim it?

Thanks for your time.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Deinos!

So the idea that each pantheon has an intermediate-deity Godslayer, a greater-deity Cosmic Umbilical/megadragon, and an elder one Pantheonic Destroyer, greatly intrigues me.

I thought it was a nifty idea myself.

But what about for a pantheon that is not static?

What makes you think any pantheon is static?

Will a freshly ascended pantheon of PCs, who have all become, say, lesser deities, create a fully powered Godslayer, Megadragon, and Pantheonic Destroyer immediately, or will they be scaled to the PCs?

What seems to be the case in Pantheons is that they'll outnumber these foes but individually be outmatched by them.

If the PCs manage to obtain Elder One or greater status, will the Anti-Trinity grow in power as well?

Yes, that would be my understanding of it. These things are cosmically balanced and someone like Surtur is technically unvanquishable while the Norse Pantheon exists. he can be defeated/imprisoned for a time, but he'll always come back...like a bogeyman.

Also, as to Apertures. They grow in power the longer they have remained open; this suggests that any Tutelar in control of one (or a batch) will eventually ascend to Elder One status.

Thats a long, long time though. Plus some apertures may get closed/destroyed before that.

It mentions that the Gods find any who would ascend to such status to be a threat to the cosmic balance; does that mean that a Tutelar who has been in possession of an aperture since its creation 10 million years ago will be viewed with antagonism by intermediate and greater gods? I suppose

Tutelars would be more limited than deities in that they have to defend the apertures. So they are probably constrained by location.

Should clusters of Tutelars have their own Anti-Trinities? Is a group of Tutelars even a Pantheon?

Tutelars may have opposed beings powered by the other end of the aperture.

Lastly, am I right to assume that an Aperture's power does not diminish if its Custodian dies? Normally, a god loses 90% of his QP upon death, but presumably a Custodian who is godly due to his Aperture's power but dies, can just be resurrected and return to his Aperture to reclaim it?

Good question. I'd have to think about it but my initial thoughts are that the Aperture would lose 90% of its potency.

Thanks for your time.

Always happy to help amigo.

 

[Deinos]

Howdy Deinos!

Hey UK, thanks for the quick reply. I gotta ask more questions then...

What makes you think any pantheon is static?

Ah, well, I thought you said something to the effect that normally a pantheon will have one greater god, and the rest will be lessers and intermediates... I thought the intent was that they would remain at that balance of power indefinitely.

Yes, that would be my understanding of it. These things are cosmically balanced and someone like Surtur is technically unvanquishable while the Norse Pantheon exists. he can be defeated/imprisoned for a time, but he'll always come back...like a bogeyman.

Cool.

Although managing to beat your own private Surtr is a big thing (probably an event that could trigger Worship Point gain) I might think you don't really gain Quintessence Points from doing so, since the Pantheonic Destroyer and others have Quintessence that is a byproduct of your own Quintessence... presumably.

I would assume these attacks happen more on the basis of dramatic necessity than "wellp, I just finished regenerating, time to do the same thing I do every night: try and kill the Norse Pantheon!" Or perhaps they don't want to waste their effort and make themselves look stupid by attacking every weekend.

I have to wonder, though. If the anti-pantheon eradicates the pantheon they're attached to, do they destroy themselves, or do they simply become non-indestructible? Could they keep themselves in indestructible existence by slapping a few surviving hero-deities in cages somewhere, or is it an irresistible compulsion?

Tutelars would be more limited than deities in that they have to defend the apertures. So they are probably constrained by location.

True. So would they be viewed as less of a threat?

Tutelars may have opposed beings powered by the other end of the aperture.

That's a cool idea.

Good question. I'd have to think about it but my initial thoughts are that the Aperture would lose 90% of its potency.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I was wondering to what degree tutelars and worship-fueled deities follow the usual rules regarding transfer/loss of quintessence... so if a tutelar dies, his aperture loses 90% of its power, does that mean that a soul object also loses 90% of its power if the bearer dies?

I was also debating whether the custodian of an aperture should have their divine realm automatically centered on the aperture -- possibly even a divine realm that remains the same between owners -- though this raises the issue of what would happen if a god with an existing divine realm takes over an aperture.

Is it possible for multiple apertures to be created in close proximity (such as by the 100-wish method) and if so can an immortal tap into multiples at the same time? I was rather imagining a sort of throne room with the throne being at the central overlap of an array of apertures.

Always happy to help amigo.

Well I'm thankful.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey UK, thanks for the quick reply. I gotta ask more questions then...

Fire away amigo!

Ah, well, I thought you said something to the effect that normally a pantheon will have one greater god, and the rest will be lessers and intermediates... I thought the intent was that they would remain at that balance of power indefinitely.

Having examined Earth's 20+ pantheons thats the general set-up, but it isn't always like that. The Hndu Trimurta is three Greater Gods, the Persian duality two.

Plus even after you create a Pantheon, old gods may be destroyed and new ones arise (especially where PCs can become immortals).

Cool.

Although managing to beat your own private Surtr is a big thing (probably an event that could trigger Worship Point gain) I might think you don't really gain Quintessence Points from doing so, since the Pantheonic Destroyer and others have Quintessence that is a byproduct of your own Quintessence... presumably.

If you really wanted to defeat Surtur permanently then I suppose you could do it, but a new threat would evolve to fill that void.

I would assume these attacks happen more on the basis of dramatic necessity than "wellp, I just finished regenerating, time to do the same thing I do every night: try and kill the Norse Pantheon!" Or perhaps they don't want to waste their effort and make themselves look stupid by attacking every weekend.

Absolutely its all about dramatic necessity. In the mythology, Odin initially imprisoned Surtur in the centre of the Earth, so I think whats likely to happen is that when its expedient for the story, something will happen and his containment will be breached.

I have to wonder, though. If the anti-pantheon eradicates the pantheon they're attached to, do they destroy themselves, or do they simply become non-indestructible? Could they keep themselves in indestructible existence by slapping a few surviving hero-deities in cages somewhere, or is it an irresistible compulsion?

Either way is plausible but they probably get destroyed in the process.

If we look at the Divine vs. Primordial paradigm of 4E, then the primordials are more powerful but relatively 'one-dimensional' in terms of their thinking...as elementals probably would be.

True. So would they be viewed as less of a threat?

Pound for pound they would be more powerful near the aperture (bit like a deity on their home realm), but certainly less mobile.

That's a cool idea.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I was wondering to what degree tutelars and worship-fueled deities follow the usual rules regarding transfer/loss of quintessence... so if a tutelar dies, his aperture loses 90% of its power, does that mean that a soul object also loses 90% of its power if the bearer dies?

Well, one of the reasons for soul objects is that you soul is protected even on death. So such beings wouldn't be diminished in power when destroyed, but, if the soul object is destroyed the deity loses 90% of its power. Of course most soul objects/artifacts are really hard to destroy.

I was also debating whether the custodian of an aperture should have their divine realm automatically centered on the aperture

Yes.

-- possibly even a divine realm that remains the same between owners -- though this raises the issue of what would happen if a god with an existing divine realm takes over an aperture.

Depends on where the aperture is. If its on a different plane then the deity may have different powers depending upon where it is...or it may become multi-dimensional.

Is it possible for multiple apertures to be created in close proximity (such as by the 100-wish method) and if so can an immortal tap into multiples at the same time? I was rather imagining a sort of throne room with the throne being at the central overlap of an array of apertures.

Yes, but that would not be cost effective. The amount of quintessence/wishes to create them all would far outstrip the returns.

Well I'm thankful.