D&D (2024) How Should the Bastion rules be updated from that UA?

[Kobold Avenger]

I remember in the survey writing a bunch of long responses about how I thought they should have handled bastions. I did state that I liked that there was a thing like bastions, but it needed things like:

• Having facilities that level up and improve, instead of replacing old ones with newer improved versions. Such as having different facility types like library and scriptorium being the same facility, just improving to the other at higher levels
• "Vast" facilities that are way larger than 30x30 feet
• Menagerie and stable being way more fantastical (where's the Griffons and Wyverns)
• The "Pub issue" not making sense, which may have been solved with the improving facilities
• Some more fantastical things like Bastion being a vehicle.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

You have good suggestions.

I was extremely excited for Bastions, but when the UA dropped, I liked their implementation so little that I don't think that I ever even finished reading the whole UA. I got bored and moved on to something else. So I don't think that I'd be qualified to even start on how to fix them, myself.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Lots of players don't reach higher levels.

Other point could about the same group of players with different "waves" of PCs leveling up the same bastion.

What if a PC dies and replaced with a lower-level new one?

* How could be a "bastion" as a spelljammer?

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I remember I expressed I didn't like that you rolled something 2d8+2d6+1d4 to get Bastion Points because who weren't going for some optimal facility layout.

 

[grimmgoose]

Honestly, just take the Savage Worlds Fantasy Companion "Stronghold" system, and make it 5E.

The Bastion system, as/is has many problems, but also it is so needlessly complex. Instead, just do:

• Everytime you level up, your stronghold levels up as well
• When your stronghold levels up, you can choose a new structure to add to it. This could be anywhere from:
  • a barracks that grants you 20 guards
  • or a Great Hall, granting you Expertise (or Advantage) when making persuasion checks inside your Stronghold
  • or a Wizard's Tower that grants you a free casting of a spell, or a Monument that grants all party members a free success on a Death Save.
  • Library that gives you advantage on rolls involving research or lore (like History or Religion)
  • etc. (the SWADE version contains 23 different upgrades)
• When you add a new structure, you roll on the Encounters table. On a 1-10, nothing happens. From 11-20, different events can befall your Stronghold, which can include anything from a Plague, a Siege, a Diplomatic Mission, Roving Bandits, etc.

There's no currency, nothing to track, and the Stronghold increases when players do. It's about the easiest thing to drop in, and the game can keep going.

 

[Merlecory]

If like done rules supporting "outpost" type bastions, for lack of better term. Remote places, where the party might rest or recuperate, but not require that players become middle management.

Think things like the players setting up a small hunting camp, or take over a cave from the goblins. It could be natural for players to say, brew potions before venturing out, but it might be odd to have peon #5 working there.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

When thinking of alternative Bastion types, I suddenly thought of "Nomad Clan" as being a type. One that can encompass a tribal group, mercenary company, traveller families, a troupe of performers and more. It's a mobile Bastion, but would only work as a Bastion when the clan settles in an area.

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

I just want a huge list of fixed GP costs for various buildings and facilities as well as monthly (or weekly) upkeep costs for staff and supplies.

The whole point system and minigame that they proposed seemed massively overdesigned, yet not really worth the effort into implementing. I hope that they hit on a better system for it if they intended to go in the direction. I am sure that some in WOTC think it is important so they can throw in a "Bastion" miniapp in to D&D Beyond.... possibly including cosmetic items that they could sell as minitransactions, but the system as seen in the playtest UA didn't feel like a 5e type design and didn't interact cohesively with the rest of the game.

It sounds like it will be easy enough to ignore, but I don't want 30 pages of the DMG to be dedicated to something that most games are ignoring. Everything in the core books should be vital to playing or running the game.

 

[dave2008]

Honestly, just take the Savage Worlds Fantasy Companion "Stronghold" system, and make it 5E.

The Bastion system, as/is has many problems, but also it is so needlessly complex. Instead, just do:

• Everytime you level up, your stronghold levels up as well
• When your stronghold levels up, you can choose a new structure to add to it. This could be anywhere from:
  • a barracks that grants you 20 guards
  • or a Great Hall, granting you Expertise (or Advantage) when making persuasion checks inside your Stronghold
  • or a Wizard's Tower that grants you a free casting of a spell, or a Monument that grants all party members a free success on a Death Save.
  • Library that gives you advantage on rolls involving research or lore (like History or Religion)
  • etc. (the SWADE version contains 23 different upgrades)
• When you add a new structure, you roll on the Encounters table. On a 1-10, nothing happens. From 11-20, different events can befall your Stronghold, which can include anything from a Plague, a Siege, a Diplomatic Mission, Roving Bandits, etc.

There's no currency, nothing to track, and the Stronghold increases when players do. It's about the easiest thing to drop in, and the game can keep going.

I think a system like you describe fits 5e's ethos well. However, I know some people would like a more complex and detailed system. Not saying the UA was anything like that though!

 

[pukunui]

I didn't like the Bastion rules as presented in the UA. My feedback to them was to scrap the whole thing and use the franchise rules from the Acquisitions Inc book (with the AI serial numbers filed off). It's a system that works really well. They really didn't need to reinvent the wheel on this one.