D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[Von Ether]

Because if WotC had picked Mystara or Nentir Vale, someone would have complained it wasn't Greyhawk.

 

[Von Ether]

First note, Gen Zers are starting to age out of the target audience for D&D, Gen Alpha is the upcoming target.

As to Greyhawk...it is perfect. The actual Setting itself, at core, is a 32 page 1E booklet worth of information, which is the ideal size for a chapter in the DMG (we know now that Greyhawk and "how to build out your Setting" is Chapter 9 of the new DMG). It follows all the core assumptions of D&D, everything in the new PHB and MM will fit in without issues.

It is nearly a blank slate, a canvas for a DM and players to develop in play. Forgotten Realms is too detailed for this purpose, Eberron is too quirky, Nerrath is too little detailed.

And Greyhawk is a touchstone to the origins of the hobvy.

Funny enough, the Basic Rules 5e pdf would be a perfect fit for GW. Seeing as the starter boxed sets are almost always the four races and four classes, GW will be a fit there as well.

 

[Stormonu]

Maybe they will at least finally address that it is okay to limit options for the purpose of setting coherence. "Dwarves in Greyhawk can't use arcane magic, so they may not be Wizards."

Lol. No. That is NEVER going to happen.

I seem to remember one of the 1E/2E books mentioning dwarves could become Wizards, but they had to give up their magic resistance to do so (and a very low level limit as I recall). Trying to find it.

As far as limits for Greyhawk, about the only one I tend to uphold is gunpowder not working. Even that, though I've subverted as my 3E group was shocked to run across a Sea Prince privateer vessel armed with cannons (which they captured after an epic battle). The cannons turned out to be legendary weapons, dedicated to Myrlund - couldn't be reproduced, and the alchemical smokepowder it used was sourced from another plane.

Anyways, my point is limiting options is fine, but if your group doesn't find it fun, there's ways around it, and it doesn't cause the game to melt into a puddle of uselessness.

 

[Mournblade94]

What justification is needed? Greyhawk was pretty much everything D&D when it first came out. I don't see why that would have to change. Some assumptions would change because the game has evolved, but that's about it. Everything else can pretty much fit if you want it to.

You can run any D&D Setting as just a map. I think people are talking about the spirit of the world itself. How will that change.

Greyhawk was very much that Appendix N sword and Sorcery. It is Distinctly a different flavor, than Forgotten Realm High Fantasy, and Dragonlance.

Does it matter? No of course not. It's a simple consumer product. Doing Greyhawk correctly though could either separate the Greynards or Push them farther away. I was one of those pushed away by 4e Forgotten Realms. I haven't explored the lore of FR in any WOTC product after 4e, though I have adapted some of their adventures to pre 4e Realms.

It's a different sociology environment than 2008 with lots of more options, but I can see a Greyhawk mistake pushing some of the dollars away from grognards that might have signed on.

 

[Remathilis]

Greyhawk was very much that Appendix N sword and Sorcery. It is Distinctly a different flavor, than Forgotten Realm High Fantasy, and Dragonlance..

I see this stated as gospel, but I have never seen anywhere in the old books where this is true. Yes, AD&D (and Greyhawk) has a lot of inspiration from sword and sorcery, but it pulls plenty from other fantasy as well. Races, rangers and monsters from Tolkien. The monk from kung fu movies. All manner of monsters from Greek and Norse myth. Vampires and werewolves from gothic horror. I'll admit my knowledge of Greyhawk is limited to 2e and later, but I've never seen this "S&S theme" expressed. Not in the way Eberron pulp or Ravenloft horror is expressed. The first time the notion of Greyhawk being the S&S was expressed overtly was in 5e.

Which is why I find it to be more a retcon than a design paradigm. If there is some grand statement of intent that Greyhawk was supposed to be S&S flavored D&D, it a) failed and b) is well obscured. What Greyhawk feels to me is a kitchen sink setting inspired by the stuff Gary was familiar with, just like every other DM creating a home setting. My first setting was inspired by Star Wars, X-Men and Final Fantasy stuff, but I would not call it a "Sci-fi/comic book/video game" themed setting.

If you have some definitive proof Gary wanted Greyhawk to be the S&S D&D setting, I'd love to see it.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Does Steven Universe relate to D&D at all?

Different classes of gems with different powers.
It is possible (but far from guaranteed) to "win" conflicts by talking and diplomacy, not just by murder.
Special ancestry giving a person weird powers.
Ordinary people adventuring alongside people with superpowers.
"Dysfunctional adoptive family of bisexual disaster kleptomaniacs" is a not-entirely-inaccurate description of SU.
Going on "missions" to save the world.
A party full of weirdos who each have a special magic weapon, and who get stronger when they team up rather than going it alone.

Yeah, I'd say there's enough conceptual overlap to assert a relation. Are they the same? Certainly not.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I see this stated as gospel, but I have never seen anywhere in the old books where this is true. Yes, AD&D (and Greyhawk) has a lot of inspiration from sword and sorcery, but it pulls plenty from other fantasy as well. Races, rangers and monsters from Tolkien. The monk from kung fu movies. All manner of monsters from Greek and Norse myth. Vampires and werewolves from gothic horror. I'll admit my knowledge of Greyhawk is limited to 2e and later, but I've never seen this "S&S theme" expressed. Not in the way Eberron pulp or Ravenloft horror is expressed. The first time the notion of Greyhawk being the S&S was expressed overtly was in 5e.

Which is why I find it to be more a retcon than a design paradigm. If there is some grand statement of intent that Greyhawk was supposed to be S&S flavored D&D, it a) failed and b) is well obscured. What Greyhawk feels to me is a kitchen sink setting inspired by the stuff Gary was familiar with, just like every other DM creating a home setting. My first setting was inspired by Star Wars, X-Men and Final Fantasy stuff, but I would not call it a "Sci-fi/comic book/video game" themed setting.

If you have some definitive proof Gary wanted Greyhawk to be the S&S D&D setting, I'd love to see it.

You are probably right about that, but that doesn't mean that Greyhawk was specifically intended to be all of whatever D&D is, and therefore is intended to be expanded to take on anything added to D&D over the decades. Again, that's Eberron.

 

[MGibster]

Because if WotC had picked Mystara or Nentir Vale, someone would have complained it wasn't Greyhawk.

A solar could descend from the heavens with the perfect D&D setting and people would still complain.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

A solar could descend from the heavens with the perfect D&D setting and people would still complain.

Sure. But there are degrees of complaint, no? And I guarantee you that if they'd picked Nentir Vale, the howls would have been loud.

 

[Mournblade94]

Sure. But there are degrees of complaint, no? And I guarantee you that if they'd picked Nentir Vale, the howls would have been loud.

I personally would rather they mess up Nentir Vale than Greyhawk. Its extraordinarily easy to convert material to 5e.