D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[mamba]

From what I can gather, he was actually serious about this rather than using it as an example of what happens when you adhere too closely to RAW

feels a lot like some background feature consequences to me

 

[FrogReaver]

Well, why would you think they're being dropped if it wasn't because they were not being used? And, if they aren't being used, why do you think that is?

200 pages of you and others insisting that these backgrounds won't function is pretty much all the proof I need. As if it would break the game for someone's criminal background to send a message to someone through the Vistani. OH NOES, the HORROR. The campaign is utterly ruined. They managed to send a letter home!!!! They managed to do something that any 5th level wizard could do, far more reliably and far faster. The campaign!!! It is dead beyond redemption.

I mean, holy crap. The party wants to rest the night in a town. The player invokes his Folk Hero background and gets a night of rest and saves 2 gp. THE HORROR!!! The entire campaign has gone down in flames and is utterly ruined.

But, yeah, you are 100% the reason why background features are going away. You and every other DM who steps up to the player and demands that the player, who only has a fraction of the knowledge of the campaign world, justifies sufficiently, to you, that this minor ribbon ability can function. Gee, I wonder why players don't do it more often. It's a complete mystery. I am baffled.

So, the players knowing that these abilities are going to be nothing but a pain in the ass, just don't use them. Has nothing to do with how they are written and everything to do with the fact that they know these abilities are unreliable. A feat? Feats always work. Never a problem. So, we get feats. Problem solved and everyone is happy.

I don’t like background feats. I don’t like most background features either.

Feats are probably an improvement for me though.

But background features were removed because a sizable number of players in the play tests approved of the idea of background feats without background features.

 

[FrogReaver]

I honestly don't know why, because I thought I was pretty clear that what I was talking about was ways it would be logical to work, not that it must work.

I don’t either at this point and it’s really not important enough for me to go back and try to track down why. But I did think that. Don’t anymore, but I did.

 

[Maxperson]

And yet? The vast majority of players disagree with you and will use spells over mundane means far more often than not.
Even the Dev's have pretty much admitted it by removing background abilities and replacing them with feats. Why? Because they know that the feats will actually get used at the table and that the DM won't block them.

After all, I can't use sailor background because reasons. I can't use my criminal background because reasons. I can't use peasant hero background because I'm apparently not wearing the appropriate clothing... On and on.

Let's not forget here. We're discussing BACKGROUNDS. Bringing up a bunch of times when skills will work instead of spells isn't relevant to the conversation. Bringing up a bunch of times when spells don't work when there aren't any mundane options is irrelevant. All this smoke and mirrors trying to cloud the issue at hand isn't relevant and isn't helping the conversation.

There evidence is pretty clear that mundane abilities are the last resort for groups that lack the option to do something else.

But, don't take my word for it. Actually watch your group over the next few sessions. Note how many times they resort to magic vs using mundane options. My prediction is that they will opt for the magic option far more often than the mundane given the choice.

You're acting as if backgrounds will fail all or most of the time. That's not what the majority of folks here are saying. Sometimes they won't work.

I guess I've gotten lucky or have really high quality players, because it's been decades since I last saw a player waste a spell on something a PC could do without magic. You've had a different experience, but it sure doesn't match mine.

As for trying to limit this only to backgrounds, your list of spells was overly broad and extended out past just backgrounds. A lot of what backgrounds fail to cover during those times when they don't work can be covered by skill use. That can't be overlooked in this discussion.

Sage won't work, don't use a highly restrictive divination spell and waste a slot when you can just spend some time and investigate your way to the knowledge. The immediate response to a background that fails shouldn't be to waste your magic slots. There is usually a non-magical way to solve it.

 

[Maxperson]

they are all the proof I need to see that they are badly phrased and poorly thought out, both of which are reason enough to drop them

I strongly disagree. That's reason enough to improve a part of the game that is a serious aid to players. Even if the backgrounds had no abilities at all, they still provide a fantastic aid to roleplaying for both new and experienced players. They should not be dropped.

 

[mamba]

I strongly disagree. That's reason enough to improve a part of the game that is a serious aid to players. Even if the backgrounds had no abilities at all, they still provide a fantastic aid to roleplaying for both new and experienced players

I was talking about the features, not the backgrounds. I would also be ok with revising them drastically, but a feat instead is probably better

 

[Maxperson]

I was talking about the features, not the backgrounds. I would also be ok with revising them drastically, but a feat instead is probably better

Feats are precious. I'd rather not see background put into the mix when they are free right now.

 

[mamba]

Feats are precious. I'd rather not see background put into the mix when they are free right now.

I see this more as an additional free-ish feat than as a restriction

 

[Hussar]

they are all the proof I need to see that they are badly phrased and poorly thought out, both of which are reason enough to drop them

And yet all these problem spells being used as examples pass without change.

Almost as if there was another reason…

 

[Maxperson]

I see this more as an additional free-ish feat than as a restriction

How would it be free-ish?