D&D (2024) 75 Feats -- not nearly enough

[Justice and Rule]

Inflated numbers are really an uninteresting way to do that IMO. If you feel you need them, pick up a feat that has a +1 and something else. If you are really worried about the numbers, having 2x feats would allow you to get all the numbers upgrades plus a lot of interesting extras. But it makes it a choice.

IME, you don't need stat progression in 5e. But if you do, no skin off my back. Give'm ASIs and Feats.

That doesn't make my fighter a better speaker or my Rogue wiser. The problem is that we are talking about a system based around numerical rolls and to be better at things, we ostensible need two things: better stats or better proficiency. The problem is that proficiency is locked in, so the only way to improve outside of that is through ASIs (or maybe an expertise feat).

 

[dave2008]

That doesn't make my fighter a better speaker or my Rogue wiser. The problem is that we are talking about a system based around numerical rolls and to be better at things, we ostensible need two things: better stats or better proficiency. The problem is that proficiency is locked in, so the only way to improve outside of that is through ASIs (or maybe an expertise feat).

Sure it can.

As is you can take these feats to gain a +1 to wisdom: Chef, Fey Touched, Fury of the Frost Giants, Gift of the Gem Dragon, Guile of the Cloud Giant, Keeness of the Stone Giant, Observant, Resilient, Shadow Touched, and Skill Expert.

Your fighter has a plethora of similar choices, but Linguist stands out. And you get extra interesting too, like:

• +1 to intelligence, you learn three languages, and you can ably create ciphers

To be clear, I am not really talking about RAW 5e. If this is the route you want to go - create more feats, not more ASI, IMO.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Sure it can.

As is you can take these feats to gain a +1 to wisdom: Chef, Fey Touched, Fury of the Frost Giants, Gift of the Gem Dragon, Guile of the Cloud Giant, Keeness of the Stone Giant, Observant, Resilient, Shadow Touched, and Skill Expert.

Your fighter has a plethora of similar choices, but Linguist stands out. And you get extra interesting too, like:

• +1 to intelligence, you learn three languages, and you can ably create ciphers

But that's basically just taking an ASI with a feat. Like, by that logic if I gave you an ASI plus a Feat, that's just a feat with a custom ASI on it.

 

[dave2008]

But that's basically just taking an ASI with a feat. Like, by that logic if I gave you an ASI plus a Feat, that's just a feat with a custom ASI on it.

You can look at it that way, sure. I see it a bit differently, bit it is simply a matter of perspective and preference. There is no wrong or right answer here.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Oh. Damn. That was a bad oversight by me. Skilled were obviouly way to powerful if it also gave +1 int or so. Good thing you catched that gamebreaking combo.

I think you assume to much and not enough at the same time here...

Your sarcasm is unwarranted, and my point was not "oh look at the broken combo!!!" My point was, "Just take away the +1 stat" either leaves many half-feats pretty weak by comparison to "full" feats, or excludes any feat that doesn't provide +1 to a stat--either way, seemingly a problem.

 

[Horwath]

The way it's written, it basically is a goodstuff feat that is a must take for every caster regardless of your build. FT and ST only are useful in certain builds and concepts. This feat basically said "pick the best first and second level spells in the game.

you allready get that with Fey touched, this would actually possibly add some variety to spells chosen.

You get two additional spell slots as well." What character in their right mind isn't taking shield or silvery barbs at first level and healing spirit or misty step at second. Further, you are giving spell slots rather than free casts which is far more useful

maybe, but any spell chosen would probably be cast once per short rest in 99% of the time

to a paladin (free smites)

sure, possibly, still you are better of using 1 silvery barb and 1 misty step per day than little extra damage you deal.

sorcerer (free spell points)

same as paladin,

and warlocks (which refresh on a SR).

spell slots are not pact magic and they do not refresh on SR

There isn't a build that doesn't benefit from this feat, and that includes champion fighters. That is generic, flavorless and overpowered.

Shadow touched and Fey touched work on every build possible.

and if you talk about floating +1 ASI, yes, but then again, all half-feats should come with floating +1 ASI so players dont need to plan their point buy 15 levels ahead.

 

[teitan]

Well it depends.

Feats explain "Is my character different?".

Feats often "make up for" the simplicity of the base Ability Score and class system of most editions. And the simplistic races as well.

There was always a drive to this. Before it was weapon specialization and spell school specialization. Then there was weapon speed and attack charts.

I could play a fighter then my fighter either dies or I go into a new campaign, I can play a new fighter that plays different from the last. And what if you have 2 members of the same class. Now you are in direct competition for a role or loot in a cooperative game

Without feats, the onus on mechanical differentiation is placed on the DM who is now forced to hand out crazier loot

We were fine without them being core for a decade. I run DCC, 3.x derived. No feats and I don’t have to hand out crazier loot for character differentiation. Even with just 7 classes.

 

[tetrasodium]

We were fine without them being core for a decade. I run DCC, 3.x derived. No feats and I don’t have to hand out crazier loot for character differentiation. Even with just 7 classes.

"We"? Why are you using the royal we when describing your personal feelings about feats as 2014 designed?

 

[Kobold Stew]

During the 10-year run of 5E we have gotten more and more feats to where I think we have 103 total now and I can't say the game is any better for it compared to the 20 or so we got in the PHB.

I count 42 in the PHB, plus 15 in Tasha's, and 15 racial feats in Xanathar's. There might be more in some of the other books, I don't know. So that's 72.
Plus, to compare Apples to Apples, we should include the not-really-a-feats-that-we're-now-calling-feats: the ASI, the six PHB fighting styles, and the 5 fighting styles in Tasha's. That's 12 more, for a total of 84. (so that's 49 to 84 over the course of ten years, compared to 75 in the new PHB [as it's been presented in playtests])

75 feats in the 2024 PHB is 9 fewer than what we've had in the PHB, Tahsa, and Xanathar.

We can disagree about quality improvement -- I would say many of the Tasha's feats have improved the game, but I accept that your view differs -- but it appears to me they are dialling back (and hopefully improving and balancing in doing so).

 

[Kobold Stew]

For what it's worth, here is a proposed fix to the feat Fighting Initiate, as it appears in Tasha's.

Current wording allows you to chose a fighting style, from those available to fighters.

My proposal:
1. Keep it as written, but make it a level 4 feat and allow a +1 ASI to STR, DEX, or CON. The feat can be taken more than once, with a different choice each time.
2. Keep all fighting styles as a choice for martials (listed with the fighter, repeated for other classes if needed), but not as feats (again, as in the PHB).

Fighting styles are no longer a (sub-optimal) feat; with this, other classes can develop a fighting style, just not at first level (which allows some class/niche protection). I'd like the PHB styles and the Tasha's styles to be available. I would add one more, that lets you used a unarmed strikes or a non-Heavy, non-two-handed, non-ranged weapon as a finesse weapon (which, among other things, would enrich the build possibilities for thug rogues).

And it means there are 11 fewer feats, all of a sudden, in the feat list.