D&D 5E Your Thoughts on the Paladin: Oath of Glory

[Todd Roybark]

Hi Everyone. I just received my copy of Mystic Odysseys of Theros. The initial reaction from the PDF purchasing crowd, seemed negative towards the Oath of Glory subclass.

I find the Oath of Glory to be interesting. Thematically an Oath of Glory Paladin, can play up Being a Hero...More then being a divine servant.
The Oath of Glory Oath Spell list, is Concentration heavy but a good list of spells:
guiding bolt, heroism
enhance ability, magic weapon
haste, protection/ energy
compulsion, freedom of movement
commune, flame strike

To enhance the whole Feats of Prowess theme for the Oath of Glory, the Channel Divinity options are:
Peerless Athlete: Bonus Action, lasts 10 minutes gives Advantage on STR (Athletics) and DEX (Acrobatics) checks, doubles your carrying capacity, and bend bars/lift gates, and increases your High and Long Jump by 10'.

The Oath of Glory Paladin, has no mobility problems.

Inspiring Smite: Bonus Action, after a Divine Smite you can spend your Channel Divinity and grant 2d8 + Paladin Level Temp HP.

Aura of Alacrity at 7th level boosts the Paladin's speed by 10', as well as adding 10' movement to friendlies that start w/in 5 foot of the Paladin.
This is an interesting power, but not as great as other Paladin Auras. It feels very Captain America Heroic though.

Glorious Defense appears untouched from the U/A version. Still grants a chance to Parry and Riposte up to Cha modifier per Long Rest.
The Capstone power, Living Legend...can be powered by expending a 5th level spell slot. This should become a more common feature.

I like that the subclass lacks a Turn Monster feature. I like that the Oath of Glory is a decent Temp HP bestower through Heroism and Inspiring Smite.
I really like that the Oath of Glory has Capstone and Channel Divinity options that can apply to either the Exploration or Social Interaction Pillars.

For the Oath of Glory detractors, what do you not like about the subclass?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's boring.

The Oath of Heroism was soooo much better.

 

[Leatherhead]

I'm going to take the time right out of the gate to say a Paladin is a Paladin, and even a Paladin without a Subclass would be a good or even great addition to an adventuring party.

That said, you do get to pick a subclass for your Paladin, and therefore you should compare the opportunity costs of them against each other.

Without going too deep into it: Jumping is a horrible movement option, even with bonuses, and sometimes the bonuses can make it worse (like when you fall down from a high place after trying to high jump). Paladins who want mobility aren't hurting for mobility thanks to summoning mounts and spell lists that include things like Misty Step. Finally, there are better Auras, Channel Divinities (that THP power really pails in comparison to other defensive powers), and Capstone powers for Paladins. Admittedly, the level 15 ability is one of the better ones, but most people don't see level 15 anyway.

 

[jgsugden]

To Compare to Oath of Vengeance:

Tenets: Both encourage you to put yourself in high danger, but Vengeance also encourages you to be merciless. That can cause social challenges. Edge Glory.

Oath Spells (LVL 1): Hunter's mark is a big benefit and not otherwise available to paladins. Bane is Heroism, which you could choose to prepare anyways) is nearly useless once you hit 10th level, and only conditionally useful before then. I'd rather spend my concentration on something else. Guiding Bolt would be good if not for the ability to do more damage with a smite (2d6+2d8+strength/dex vs 4d6 with a lower attack bonus). Still, at greater ranges or when an ally really needs advantage, It has a place. Still, large edge to Vengeance.

Oath Spells (LVL 2): You get these at 5th level. Enhance ability when you already have an option for advantage on Athletics and Acrobatics is a bit of a waste. Magic Weapon is a situational want, and you can already prepare it. Hold Person is a nice emergency stop, even with the lower DC, and Misty Step is huge. Large edge to Vengeance.

Oath Spells (LVL 3): Identical. Strong options at level 9.

Oath Spells (LVL 4): While both lists are fine, the Dimension Door is the winner option here that will be used most often. At 13th level, it holds up as a useful spell for retreat or closing with a distant ranged enemy. Large edge to Vengeance.

Oath Spells (LVL 5): 17th level is rarely reached, and both provide some conditional benefits. I'd call them a wash.

Channel Divinity: Peerless Athlete is a nice to have option, but far from a significant benefit. You also have a bonus spell that does much of the same work. Inspiring Smite is the better option, and gives you a way to heal as a bonus action allowing you to fix multiple PCs - but until you reach higher levels, it requires your channel divinity, bonus action and a spell slot for the Smite. And, you need to hit to do it. Abjure Enemy, even when the save is made, is a huge benefit to the party in that it locks a big threat down with low mobility. Vow of Enmity is also super strong in combat in games where advantage is less common and the enemy has a high AC. Large edge to Vengeance..

7th level Abilities: Both grant some mobility, but the Oath of Glory is much better. Extra 10' movement over a very conditional +15 already favors the paladin, but the ability to give that extra movement to allies, especially at the start of combat, is huge. Edge Glory.

15th Level Abilities: An extra 3 or 4 attacks and avoiding 3 or 4 hits can be huge for Glory, but the timing of them is hard to control. However, being able to make an extra attack whenever your Enmity Foe attacks you is also huge, but requires you to draw in those enemy attacks. I call these a near wash, but edge to Glory.

20th Level abilities: 20th level abilities are not that important due to lack of use opportunity. Living Legends is fine, but you should not be missing a lot at this level, Rerolling failed saves when you have the highest saves around, as does your party from your aura, is less useful than you might think, but can be a day saver. The ability to reuse the ability with your 5th level slot sounds nice, but you may want that for a smite or a spell. However, it is a bonus action. The Avenging Angel gives you huge mobility with flight, and a saving throw or frightened for every enemy within 30 feet of you (once each per combat) can also be a huge benefit. However, it requires an action and that means you need to be prepared for combat or you're giving up a round of attacks. The abilities are mostly irrelevant, but I give Glory the edge.

Overall: They're both certainly playable and you should pick the one that matches your character concept. However, if you're playing a low level game, I'd call Vengeance clearly better up to 7th level. Then they begin to balance out, but for power gaming I would still stick with Vengeance. At the highest levels I think they remain close to a wash with Vengeance still being a bit better.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I don't get it. I don't think the abilities fit very well with the heroics of the Iliad or even the trials of Hercules. Meneleus never used guiding bolt. I don't t like the use of temporary hit point as morale. I don't like the focus on teamwork. Glory, in the Greek sense, was more personal than collective.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I like it. Its a really good Hero foundation.
Nothing huge and stand-out, but builds on the Paladin chassis very solidly.
Spells supply some ranged (a weakness of Paladins) and are otherwise useful utility that is nice to always have prepared,
Athletic capabilities are no Misty Step, but let you bypass a lot of obstacles in addition to the grappling etc possibilities.
Worth noting that Aura will grant extra movement to your steed if you have one.

Its the Wonder Woman to Vengeance's Batman.

 

[Todd Roybark]

It's boring.
The Oath of Heroism was soooo much better.

The Oath of Heroism revolved around granting the PC a limited form of being able to perform a Critical Hit on a roll of 19-20 on a d20.

The Champion and Hexblade say: "Been there, Done that".

Jumping is a horrible movement option

I could not disagree more. Of course Flight is better, but jumping is a poor persons way to change elevations, or grapple the back of a hydra.
Hadouken for the win!

I'd call Vengeance clearly better up to 7th level.

I agree with that.
Of course as a Vengeance Pally, Role Play options are limited.....Dirty Harry, if you want to be Good, Charles Bronson if you just want violent revenge, or Solomon Kane if you just want Crazy.

Meneleus never used guiding bolt

No but a wise king knows how to grant Advantage to his rogue subjects.
As it is ,quite possible, that the Oath of Glory will be reprinted in the forthcoming XGE 2 that has been forecasted....I think the subclass is going to need to be evaluated separately from the setting.

If you don't like jumping, if you want to be the most powerful, and if you don't want to take the Inspiring Leader feat, then this subclass is probably not for you.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

No but a wise king knows how to grant Advantage to his rogue subjects.
As I think it, quite possible, that the Oath of Glory will be reprinted in the forthcoming XGE 2 that has been forecasted....I think the subclass is going to need to be evaluated separately from the setting.

Advantage = battle shouts; laser beam = ?

Even Apollo doesn't laser beam.

 

[Todd Roybark]

It is D&D, by Crom!
Theros is most definitely NOT Ancient Greece.

You, might, be placing a somewhat arbitrary criterion:
the subclass has to match your own personal view of an Ancient Greek Warrior.

It is a fair expectation to be sure, but the design goal for the Oath of Glory seems to be guided by the idea of Heroism, tempered with options that allow for PC group protection.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

It is D&D, by Crom!
Theros is most definitely NOT Ancient Greece.

You, might, be placing a somewhat arbitrary criterion:
the subclass has to match your own personal view of an Ancient Greek Warrior.

It is a fair expectation to be sure, but the design goal for the Oath of Glory seems to be guided by the idea of Heroism, tempered with options that allow for PC group protection.

Good point. I'm now going to consider Theros a WotC-sanctioned ancient-Greek fanfic.