Your experience with Natural Spell (vs. Still Spell)

[Quasqueton]

What do you think of the natural spell feat? Let's druids overcome the big/only drawback of wildshaping -- casting spells. No increase in spell level, or extra casting time, or any drawback for this feat. Sort of like a feat to let wizards cast while in armor, with no level adjustment. If natural spell doesn't increase the spell slot, why does still spell?

Quasqueton

[Edit: wow, what terrible use of the English language.]

 

[Otterscrubber]

I've found it to be a bit dirty mainly because a lot of druid spells have such great range. A druid can change into an unassuming form like a crow and stay far away from most outdoor fights and dish out the hurt. I dont know if that makes it overpowered or not though or whether it should affect their spells' casting levels.

 

[Deset Gled]

I also don't like the fact that Natural Spell doesn't raise a spells level. I've always thought druids were on the powerful side (especially with supplements), in that they have decent casting and decent fighting abilities. A good balancing factor was that they couldn't do both at once. More importantly, they would have to end a Wild Shape usage if they wanted to cast a spell. Now they can just keep in on all the time. This feat is just too good.

I've let it stand in my games so far, though. As much as I dislike it, players seem to love it. The fact that the party is light on casters factors into that, too.

 

[Gizzard]

There is a thread a few months back discussing whether Natural Spell is overpowered. (Like all such threads it came to no agreement, although a vast majority rated it as a "must have" for any sensible Druid.)

Anyway, it's been very strong in my experience, and Otterscrubber gives a typical scenario - "I fly around as an Eagle, I spot something and nuke it from orbit with Call Lightning while acting innocent. Spellcraft me?? My opponent can't even Spot me from up here!" ;-) But, even just being a Bear who can cast spells is pretty good.

I do rather like your implicit suggestion to make a Natural Spell cost a spell slot or two higher. I bounced around a couple other possible penalties in that older thread; it was hard to find something sufficiently disruptive that Natural Spell still wasn't a good deal. "What if you can't cast your highest level spells while in Natural form, do you still take the Feat?" "Yes." "What if you can only cast a spell every other round while in Natural Form?" "Hmm, yes." "What if you have only a single form you can ever spellcast from?" "Yes. Can I take the Feat more than once?" etc.

 

[shilsen]

I've let it stand in my games so far, though. As much as I dislike it, players seem to love it.

There's probably a correlation between the two parts of that second sentence

I haven't had a problem with this feat yet, purely because the party druid is only 6th lvl and hasn't put it to any real use, but I do think it is a little too good. I've been thinking of the following fix for it:

Spells have to be designated as Natural Spells during preparation, as a druid would have to do with Still Spell, Empower Spell, etc. The spell takes up a slot one level higher than normal (though I'm leaning towards two).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Spells have to be designated as Natural Spells during preparation, as a druid would have to do with Still Spell, Empower Spell, etc. The spell takes up a slot one level higher than normal (though I'm leaning towards two).

Alternatively, make it a Metamagic Feat with no level increase like Energy Substitution.

However, just as a spell prepared as a Cold-Substituted Fireball can't be cast as a normal Fireball if you come up against a White Dragon, a spell prepared as a Natural Entangle can't be cast as a normal Entangle if you're not Wildshaped at the time...

-Hyp.

 

[shilsen]

Alternatively, make it a Metamagic Feat with no level increase like Energy Substitution.

However, just as a spell prepared as a Cold-Substituted Fireball can't be cast as a normal Fireball if you come up against a White Dragon, a spell prepared as a Natural Entangle can't be cast as a normal Entangle if you're not Wildshaped at the time...

-Hyp.

Nice. That's the other option I was planning to post today. Beaten by the little blue man again

 

[Dingleberry]

I've found it to not be overpowered because IIRC, it doesn't remove the need for a divine focus, which is more difficult to access and use when in wildshaped form (some forms more than others). That limits the selection of spells that can be easily cast using the feat.

That said, my druid has been training his monkey to carry a pouch filled with holly and mistletoe, and throw a few sprigs down in front of the wildshaped druid in response to certain visual commands (e.g., a double nod).

 

[Gizzard]

I've found it to not be overpowered because IIRC, it doesn't remove the need for a divine focus, which is more difficult to access and use when in wildshaped form...

From the SRD:

You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form.

 

[Speaks With Stone]

I like the Eschew Material Component feat in combination with Natural Spell. Regardless of what the SRD says, the MotW book specifically says that you can't use components or a focus that is melded into your form.

While I think that Natural Spell is too good not to have - which suggests overpowered - making it bonus levels seems rough. While in animal form (in 3.0, I should add), the druid has access to virtually no items. Regaining spell casting abilities with a feat just makes the animal form less of a problem - it doesn't eliminate all of the problems.