D&D 5E XP for Gold in 5E?

[CapnZapp]

It appears the DMG didn't touch this subject after all.

(The ultra short summary: instead of xp for monsters, or quests; you gain 1 XP, say, for every gold piece you successfully loot)

Where can I find some ENWorld discussion on how to implement this in an otherwise by-the-book 5E game? Say, one running Lost Mines of Phandelver, for example.

The biggest hurdle, it would seem to me, is how to ensure that the gold I hand out (as the DM) provides a fair level progression, while still giving the heroes an appropriate buying power (not too much gold, not too little)?

Making each monster walk around (or hide in its stash etc) with N gold, where N is the xp value for that monster, would mean the levelling part would be taken care of. But it would very probably make the heroes far too rich, or far too poor...

And saying simply "for each gold you gain 3 XP" or "you need to spend 3 gp to gain one XP" etc... is there good data to support such a calculation? And do a single factor hold up throughout the game, both at level 1 and level 20?

In 3E, one huge help was the "expected gold per level" table. It would seem a neat solution to simply use that to replace xp per level, and then distribute enough wealth among that level's worth of monsters, and bingo - you would have the right amount of cash at the right level, no further elaborations necessary.

But in 5E there is no such table. Right? There is no advice on "expected gold per level" in the DMG?

So what would be an easy way to reconcile the different demands of levelling and looting...?

 

[fuindordm]

I started this thread a while ago, and XP for gold was one of the first subjects I tackled. There's some discussion on the subject, hope it helps. I haven't had the chance to put it into practice yet.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?374100-Getting-the-AD-amp-D-feel-in-5th-edition

 

[CapnZapp]

I started this thread a while ago, and XP for gold was one of the first subjects I tackled. There's some discussion on the subject, hope it helps. I haven't had the chance to put it into practice yet.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?374100-Getting-the-AD-amp-D-feel-in-5th-edition

Thank you, but no, I read the entire thread and found only your suggestion and one reply saying great idea.

But mostly, I don't want to intrude upon your thread since my aims have no direct AD&D connection.

I'm just curious on how to implement xp for gold in an otherwise perfectly ordinary 5E game.

And I want to make informed decisions, so I would like feedback on my questions above.

I don't think it's as easy as just handing out 1 xp for every gold found, for example. Won't that just mean characters get too rich or too poor for their level?

 

[fuindordm]

I think the main issue is that you have to find ways for them to spend the gold afterwards. That's why AD&D had training costs for every level. The expected cash wealth of characters by level in the DMG doesn't vary strongly with level.

Also, note that the AD&D method only granted experience when the treasure was brought back to a safe place. So the rhythm was (1) adventure (2) rest and gain xp in safe place (3) spend gold on training (4) level up --- repeat.

I think you have the right idea in that you place treasure in proportion to the number of levels you want the party to gain from the adventure. So if you decide that Lost Mines should take them from level 1 to level 5, multiply the required XP for 5th level by the number of players, and distribute that amount of treasure in GP throughout the dungeon. Then you have two choices: find ways in the game to siphon off that treasure (lifestyle expenses over weeks of downtime, training costs, taxes, investment in the town, bank it against future long-term goals like buying a boat or castle...) or just ignore the treasure and limit what kinds of things are available for them to buy. 10,000 gp in your purse doesn't do you any good if the only things to buy are turnips and draft horses.

What if they don't find all the treasure you place? Well, the reduced monster XP will probably make up for some of that. Finding the hidden cache at the bottom of a guarded pool is a massive XP award, but also an important story goal. If they clear the level without finding the cache, they accomplished fewer goals.

Sorry I don't have any very detailed advice; I think managing the total wealth of the party is certainly possible but also something that you'll have to work out as the game progresses.

 

[The_Gneech]

There are training rules in the DMG, but they're pretty anemic.

It seems to me that the best way to implement an XP-for-gold system would be to calculate XP-by-encounter normally, but then simply put that much treasure into various hoards etc. instead of awarding the XP for combat. Then award 1 XP per 1 GP looted.

You have to put some kind of mechanism in place to remove the gold from the economy afterwards, so presumably you'd charge the "next level" amount of gold for training to level up. Thus to go from 1st to 2nd costs 300 gp, from 2nd to 3rd costs 600, from 3rd to 4th costs 1800, etc.

-The Gneech

 

[Anth]

The idea with "xp for gold" in 5E is that the characters should gain aproximately the same number of xp with both methods (it also means that they should get the same number of gp with both methods).

Is 1xp/1gp a good ratio? I don't know, I don't have the DMG yet (and I don't even know if the info is in the DMG).
I know that in OE/1E/2E/3E that was a good ratio, but that info will not help you in a 5E-game.
The info you want is how much gold a character of level X is supposed to have. In 3E it was simple: the character was supposed to have gold equal to 90 % of his xp.

The next question is when to give xp:
- You could give xp when they find the gold in the dungeon.
- You could give xp when they succeed at bringing back the gold home (and sell items to convert it to gold).
- You could give xp when they spend the gold.

I don't give all monsters with the same CR the same amount of gold, that would be ridiculus. Unintelligent monsters have less gold, intelligent humanoids have more gold.

As for training costs I don't see what that has to do with xp for gold, as the number of gold coins should be the same no matter what method you use.
But training cost is a good money sink. I have seen the solution in the DMG and I didn't like it, so here is how I would do:
First; it isn't very exciting to train for a month or two. The important part is just to force the characters to spend some downtime, just let the PCs recuperate to gain a level.
Second; a "quick and dirty" rule for cost is just to take the CR for a monster of the same level as the character. So a level 1 PC need to pay 200 gp to raise to level 2, and a level 2 PC need to pay 450 gp to raise to level 3.

 

[SpiderMonkey]

I just started a thread on this topic a few days ago. I'm waiting for my copy to arrive, so I can't speak to what might be in the DMG. It occurs to me, however, that if it has a "wealth by level" table or set of guidelines, that could suffice as a sort of XP chart. I'm interested because I like the pulp-style of play XP-for-gold evokes, and it makes wandering monsters a nuisance worth avoiding rather than an opportunity for powering up. It's not a deal-breaker either way, but I'm also curious to see what others have done with it.

 

[edhel]

My house rule is that I give xp for gold if you spend it carousing - and you have to roll on one of the several carousing tables I have. So far it has worked alright.

 

[CapnZapp]

Well, mostly I'm asking about specific advice from players comfortable with the gold and XP economies in 5th ed.

Should I keep the simplicity of 1 gp = 1 xp, and possibly have to change either the xp per level table, or the price lists?

Or, can I keep all lists (xp tables and price lists) if I change the gold to xp ratio. And what ratio would that be?

(I never realized there were a 0.9 factor between gold and XP in 3rd edition, for instance)

The bit about SPENDING the gold I'm not so worried about. Whether you build a church, buy wine and women, or spend your time in a dank tower doing expensive experiments doesn't matter

 

[CapnZapp]

My plan, if 5e supports it without too much headache, is :

Half xp for taking the gold from the monster, half xp when you burn it on coke and hooked (or, marry the prince, or give it to an orphanage or whatevs ;-)

Why half and half, you might ask?

Mostly to not deviate too much from the kill xp my players are used to. Gaining half xp as soon as you loot the gold, even if you don't actually manage to haul it out of the dungeon, is similar to kill xp in that nobody can take it away from you once you've earned it.

We already don't require actual kills. No matter how you take the gold, it counts as having "defeated" the monster.

The other half: you don't get xp if you buy stuff for your money. You need to spend it, to "waste" it, to further your character background goals, to gain actual xp.

Specifically, if you buy magic weapons, you don't get xp. Since 5e does not absolutely require the Christmas tree of items, this is harsh but not unfair.

Since only half xp comes from carousing, or church building etc, you still gain half xp even if all your monies goes to plus items...

That's my hope, at least.

Only questions: how much gold to put in monster's pockets, that provides standard leveling speed AND AT THE SAME TIME reasonable wealth appropriate for level.